I have a .223 24" bull barrel, no threads, spiral fluted stainless steel barrel, that used to be one of my most accurate rifles I have. I brought it out the other day, and I was barely able to put ten rounds in an eight inch spread at a hundred yards, very unlike this rifle. I was thinking maybe the ammo? Then when I reloaded the rounds because I keep them all separate for each rifle now, I noticed that the brass above the shoulder was too open for the .224 dia. 55 grain bullets I had, so I had to first close it down with my crimper, and then after I reloaded them, crimp them a second time. Since they were all from this rifle, do you think the chamber was cut too big, causing them to expand beyond where they would no longer hold a .223 bullet when reloading? Or it's burned out? There have been about 1000 or more rounds through this rifle, not so many to so quickly, in one range trip, cause it to suddenly burn out I thought. It's either that, or the scope died. Any experiences on this kind of thing?
.223 Blues
- Thread starter writerman
- Start date
Check the bullets. Are they really 22s?
All the crimping is a problem.
Sounds like a neck tension issue. Did you forget to put the bushing in the sizing die? Are the cases neck turned?
Sounds like a neck tension issue. Did you forget to put the bushing in the sizing die? Are the cases neck turned?
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searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I doubt it is your rifle. Given you haven't gotten the barrel too hot from rapid, sustained fire, having only 1,000 rounds or so - I'd guess the barrel probably isn't the issue. Is this an A/R or bolt gun? Are you using a standard full-length sizing die or a bushing die? If a standard die, if your necks aren't grabbing the bullet, you likely have a mis-adjusted de-cap assembly, whereby your sizing button is opening the neck up again on extraction on your press up-stroke (assuming you aren't using brass with turned necks). If you are using a bushing die, you might try a smaller bushing - however, if you have been using the same die before (whether with a standard die or a bushing die with the same bushing) and all worked well before with the same batch of brass - something changed in your reloading process. Maybe you disassembled your die to clean it and didn't put the de-cap assembly into the same position on re-assembly? Put a different bushing in the bushing die? Seated your bullets a different depth? Set your headspace differently?
When you took your rifle out and found it was not shooting well - were you using the same batch of ammo you used before that shot well? If it was the same batch of ammo that suddenly doesn't shoot well, I'd be looking at: 1) Loose scope mounts and/or rings
2) If the stock was removed since your last trip - was it retightened the same?
3) I'd clean the bore very thoroughly to get any built-up copper from the bore.
4) I'd think about how my ammo was stored - and for how long. If it was in a humid or damp
location for a length of time, it is possible that you may have some degree of case welding
between the bullet and brass neck. That can alter one's accuracy enough to notice if really
bad.
5) Were you using a wind meter or wind flags that last day you shot to give you an idea of
how much wind movement you had going on? Only takes 5-7 MPH to open your groups up
from 3/8" to 3/4" or more. A lot of guys can have problems getting 10 rounds into an inch
with a moderate breeze moving - if not used to adjusting for the wind and having flags out.
Hope you get that figured out. Unless your rifle got banged against something or rifle dropped,
I'd not be too quick to buy another scope - as they "usually" aren't the problem.
When you took your rifle out and found it was not shooting well - were you using the same batch of ammo you used before that shot well? If it was the same batch of ammo that suddenly doesn't shoot well, I'd be looking at: 1) Loose scope mounts and/or rings
2) If the stock was removed since your last trip - was it retightened the same?
3) I'd clean the bore very thoroughly to get any built-up copper from the bore.
4) I'd think about how my ammo was stored - and for how long. If it was in a humid or damp
location for a length of time, it is possible that you may have some degree of case welding
between the bullet and brass neck. That can alter one's accuracy enough to notice if really
bad.
5) Were you using a wind meter or wind flags that last day you shot to give you an idea of
how much wind movement you had going on? Only takes 5-7 MPH to open your groups up
from 3/8" to 3/4" or more. A lot of guys can have problems getting 10 rounds into an inch
with a moderate breeze moving - if not used to adjusting for the wind and having flags out.
Hope you get that figured out. Unless your rifle got banged against something or rifle dropped,
I'd not be too quick to buy another scope - as they "usually" aren't the problem.
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A picture of a fired round with a bullet would help us to possibly help you. Is this your first try at reloading?
Paul
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Check your action screw torque. Any gun left idle for a long time should always get a complete inspection before returning to service.
Especially important if a gun has endured the vibration of traveling.
This happened to my favorite 6.5 x 47.
Add:
I just reread your post.
“I noticed that the brass above the shoulder was too open for the .224 dia. 55 grain bullets I had, so I had to first close it down with my crimper, and then after I reloaded them, crimp them a second time.“
You have a reloading die problem if you have to crimp your brass to hold a bullet.
Wrong die?
Bushing die with no bushing in it?
Mismarked 20 caliber bullets?
Check everything. Probably something stupid simple you overlooked.
Especially important if a gun has endured the vibration of traveling.
This happened to my favorite 6.5 x 47.
Add:
I just reread your post.
“I noticed that the brass above the shoulder was too open for the .224 dia. 55 grain bullets I had, so I had to first close it down with my crimper, and then after I reloaded them, crimp them a second time.“
You have a reloading die problem if you have to crimp your brass to hold a bullet.
Wrong die?
Bushing die with no bushing in it?
Mismarked 20 caliber bullets?
Check everything. Probably something stupid simple you overlooked.
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urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Something broke. Probably your scope.
8" spread at 100 yards from a previously reasonably accurate rifle. The only time I had excessive spread, albeit, not that much, is when a scope went sideways. Easy enough to verify, try another scope after making sure all screws are secured. I seriously doubt it's a reloading issue giving your 8-moa spread at 100 yards. More likely something mechanical is very wrong either in the rifle or scope.
A 1,000 rounds out of a 223 Rem fired at a modest pace without overheating the barrel is not even close to wearing out the barrel. On the other hand, the "blasters" I encounter at the range, firing AR's burn through a couple of 20 round magazines in a few minutes until the barrel is fried. That's the only way I could see 1,000 rounds "burning" out a barrel. I have several 223 Rem precision bolt rifles that have 2,000 to 3,000 rounds fired through them and they still hold well under 1 moa, some in the 1/2 moa range. However, I do not fire sustained sequences.
A 1,000 rounds out of a 223 Rem fired at a modest pace without overheating the barrel is not even close to wearing out the barrel. On the other hand, the "blasters" I encounter at the range, firing AR's burn through a couple of 20 round magazines in a few minutes until the barrel is fried. That's the only way I could see 1,000 rounds "burning" out a barrel. I have several 223 Rem precision bolt rifles that have 2,000 to 3,000 rounds fired through them and they still hold well under 1 moa, some in the 1/2 moa range. However, I do not fire sustained sequences.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Your reloading methodology needs to follow die factory instructions.
Thing is, what puzzles me, all the equipment I used was the same for hundreds of other rounds as well, all of which other than the 75 from the 24" gun were fine. Maybe the bullets I bought were seconds, but they worked in other brass just fine so I am puzzled. I like your comment, because I didn't think of the reloading dies/because they worked with everything else. I think it must have been the 'factory seconds' with a few of them too small. Only thing I can think of. They were all marked 55 grain/.223 though. Strange. For an AR, I don't think there's any action screw?Check your action screw torque. Any gun left idle for a long time should always get a complete inspection before returning to service.
Especially important if a gun has endured the vibration of traveling.
This happened to my favorite 6.5 x 47.
Add:
I just reread your post.
“I noticed that the brass above the shoulder was too open for the .224 dia. 55 grain bullets I had, so I had to first close it down with my crimper, and then after I reloaded them, crimp them a second time.“
You have a reloading die problem if you have to crimp your brass to hold a bullet.
Wrong die?
Bushing die with no bushing in it?
Mismarked 20 caliber bullets?
Check everything. Probably something stupid simple you overlooked.
I have notifications on, but don't get them.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Ok. Here’s something I experienced last spring. I grabbed a bag of 3x fired 223 brass from my drawer and ran it thru my Redding bushing sizer die. Did all the other prep and started to load some test rounds for a new Tikka. The first bullet pushed in with very light resistance. I did the “what the heck” and started checking everything. I found that the bushing in the die was 2 thou too big to size the brand of brass I was sizing. The neck walls were that little bit thinner . 1 thousandths is pretty small but enough to screw the pooch. I changed my bushing to a .243 and got my target neck tension.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Hmmm....it's all a matter of one or two thousandths, isn't it? I will check my bullets, dies, and brass. Each time really. I have been checking and rechecking everything other than that, ever since my friend who passed left me some brass he primed. He didn't check length though. Destroyed two rifles before I figured it out. Figured he spent 40 years reloading so he knew what he was doing. Nope. I always length size before priming. But he never had a .223 AR before. Surprised the heck out of me. Now I'll check diameters of everything as well. I hope there's nothing I've forgotten now. LOL!
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My dies are all factory dies and I have not had this problem reloading thousands of rounds before. I think it's as I have guessed, it was a problem with undersized 'factory seconds' where not all of them were undersized, but enough of them were. I'll measure their diameters now, that's for certain. Either that, or as Joshb says, difference in wall thickness of brass. Never encountered it before, so it threw me in a quandry. Went back into the shop, the bullets all measured .224 so I'm leaning toward neck thickness differentials?
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I actually did that the same day, still shooting all over the place. Scope screwed?
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