22 PPC and 222 for 1000yd BR

[Evan]

I have two barrels coming, one for each of my Bordens, that I am going to be experimenting with this year. One is a 22 PPC and the other is a 222. Both are being throated out to 0.100" to get this kind of a seating depth for the 90 SMK:


Left to Right: 22BR, 22PPC, 90SMK, 222 all at a "touch" in a 0.100 freebore chamber.

I've been shooting the 22BR for years now, and I am really pleased with the 90SMK for 1000yd BR. The 22BR has way more capacity than is needed to reach the good nodes with this bullet. Across a couple 28" long HV barrels, I've noticed these bullets tend to like ~2750-2780, 2830-2850, 2910-2950, and 3050-3080 or so. The top speed is easy to reach with a 22BR and have capacity still on the table to go faster, but I've never had that node shoot better than the 2910-2950 node.

So an idea started circling my thoughts last year: will less capacity yield more consistent performance at the nodes I prefer to run? Playing around with GRT, I honed in on a 22 PPC as the right capacity to explore the 2900 node, with GRT saying many different powders would put me at 58ksi around 2980fps. Seems like it will have enough power to safely hit that low-mid 2900 node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

But my brain continued to churn. Last year, I had vertical showing up in my 22BR when I shot at the low node of 2760fps on that barrel, but even still, it was shooting 5-6" groups at 1000 and would shoot just under an inch at 600yds in practice. I really wanted to explore shooting the 90 SMK at that speed, but the 223 is known to struggle with consistency at 1000yds. Back to GRT and a very attractive possibility emerged. The 222, with many of the same powders as the 22 PPC, should max out in the high 2700fps and just get me to that low node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

I plan to post up results as I get them, but wanted to share this picture since I was playing and getting ready today.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I have two barrels coming, one for each of my Bordens, that I am going to be experimenting with this year. One is a 22 PPC and the other is a 222. Both are being throated out to 0.100" to get this kind of a seating depth for the 90 SMK:

View attachment 1520143
Left to Right: 22BR, 22PPC, 90SMK, 222 all at a "touch" in a 0.100 freebore chamber.

I've been shooting the 22BR for years now, and I am really pleased with the 90SMK for 1000yd BR. The 22BR has way more capacity than is needed to reach the good nodes with this bullet. Across a couple 28" long HV barrels, I've noticed these bullets tend to like ~2750-2780, 2830-2850, 2910-2950, and 3050-3080 or so. The top speed is easy to reach with a 22BR and have capacity still on the table to go faster, but I've never had that node shoot better than the 2910-2950 node.

So an idea started circling my thoughts last year: will less capacity yield more consistent performance at the nodes I prefer to run? Playing around with GRT, I honed in on a 22 PPC as the right capacity to explore the 2900 node, with GRT saying many different powders would put me at 58ksi around 2980fps. Seems like it will have enough power to safely hit that low-mid 2900 node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

But my brain continued to churn. Last year, I had vertical showing up in my 22BR when I shot at the low node of 2760fps on that barrel, but even still, it was shooting 5-6" groups at 1000 and would shoot just under an inch at 600yds in practice. I really wanted to explore shooting the 90 SMK at that speed, but the 223 is known to struggle with consistency at 1000yds. Back to GRT and a very attractive possibility emerged. The 222, with many of the same powders as the 22 PPC, should max out in the high 2700fps and just get me to that low node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

I plan to post up results as I get them, but wanted to share this picture since I was playing and getting ready today.

Interesting and good luck. Only one way to really know, test it, and you are.I hope you report the results.

 

[Mulligan]

Evan,
One of our local shooters is using a 22 br with the heavies from Berger. He is using h4350 with good results at 600.
CW

 

[Evan]

Interesting and good luck. Only one way to really know, test it, and you are.I hope you report the results.

Good or bad, I’ll share. I was unable to find anyone else who has tried this and posted about it. The late German Salazar’s 22 PPC shooting 80gn bullets is the only thing close and he really didn’t share details about loads or speed to go off of.

 

[Evan]

Evan,
One of our local shooters is using a 22 br with the heavies from Berger. He is using h4350 with good results at 600.
CW

32gns with the 90s has been solid on 2 different barrels.

Edit: 28gns of H4350 should get the 22 PPC to 2970fps. On my list to work up with Varget and TS15.5.

 

[Evan]

And for those interested, RL17 in the 222 may just be rocket fuel! 23.5gns is predicted to hit 2830fps. 23gns of Varget should hit 2780fps. Both at about 56ksi to keep the head from expanding. IMR-3031 was modeled to be good too at 21.5gns, and I have a good bit of surplus in a keg, if I want to play with it.

I looked at a 221 Fireball, but that ended up in a weird place with powder and only could hit 2600fps - a massive drop for only 2gns less powder. The 222 is definitely in a really efficient capacity for what I’m doing.

 

[Evan]

It may be hard to see, but 24gns of RL17 barely reaches the bottom of the neck on virgin Norma 222. Plenty of room to hit max pressure. Not sure I will run RL17 much given how it burns up throats, but I'll run up a ladder and see just how fast it goes.


Also good to know: Norma 222 has a small flash hole. Starline has the standard large flash hole. This Norma is really consistent in every way I've checked. 3 cases drawn at random from the bag all had 28.0gns of H2O capacity. I'll be curious to see how it holds up. Some more recent discussion about Norma 223 suggested that they have changed the hardness of their brass in recent years and it's pretty tough now. I'll find out, given what I'm trying to do.

A loaded Norma 222 with the 90SMK measured 0.246. Starline is thicker and measured 0.248-9. Jim Borden's 222 reamer is a 0.246 neck, so I'm turning them all down to 0.243, which you can see in the picture in my first post.

 

[Mulligan]

A Waldog has about the same capacity as a deuce, and starts life as Lapua 220 Russian…. Very good brass


And

A Talldog has the same capacity as a ppc but on Lapua br brass

Just something to ponder
CW

 

[Evan]

A Waldog has about the same capacity as a deuce, and starts life as Lapua 220 Russian…. Very good brass


And

A Talldog has the same capacity as a ppc but on Lapua br brass

Just something to ponder
CW

I will turn to the Waldog next if the 222 isn't consistent, or if it needs high pressure to reach a good node. Or I will turn to it if the 222 is phenomenal and I want both guns to shoot the same speed (my Borden BR is a 378 boltface and my BRL is a PPC/308 boltface).


PPC barrel is here for the BRL. Now if only it would stop snowing every weekend so that I can actually go shoot!

 

[Evan]

Quick update and PSA: Borden drop ports with a standard boltface do NOT pull a PPC.

I found out that my glue in with devcon was quite robust. A hot iron on the picatinny rail and a wedge between the barrel and forearm popped it apart after an hour or so. It’s off to Jim Borden for a checkup and to have a new extractor fit. With about 7000 rounds through it, I’m kind of happy to have Jim look it over and make sure everything is ready to go.

 

[nakneker]

Interesting project, thanks for sharing. Do you have any 222 Lapua brass, if not and you would like 50 pieces to play with send me a PM, I’d donate them to your project just to see if it made a difference or helped in any way. I’ve had good luck with Norma 222 brass also…….

 

[Evan]

Interesting project, thanks for sharing. Do yo have any 222 Lapua brass, if not and you would like 50 pieces to play with send me a PM, I’d donate them to your project just to see if it made a difference or helped in any way. I’ve had good luck with Norma 222 brass also…….

That is a wonderful offer. PM inbound!

 

[Evan]

Action is back from Jim and glued in successfully. Saturday looks ok for shooting, as long as I get out there early because the wind will pick up fast. I chose to load up some hopefully mellow starting points that will be easy on the brass and give me an idea where I'm at:

• 25.0 to 25.4gns of Varget
• 27.0 to 27.4gns of H4350
• 25.0 to 25.4gns of TS15.5

These should all be right around 46 up 50ksi and 2820 up to 2860fps based on GRT predictions.

A 0.025" jam is where I like to start and back out from there. It is the first tolerable amount of resistance to closing a stripped bolt on the round where it is smooth and comfortable. Here's what it looks like with approximately 0.100" throat:

The bullets are lined up, although the perspective makes them look like they aren't. I'm pretty happy with this, although it could be maybe 0.020" shorter.

I like how it looks! And for those who are curious, out of the box Norma brass with a 90SMK measured 0.245"

The reamer is supposed to have a 0.250" neck, so this is a little more clearance than I think is optimal (0.003-0.004) but it is hardly going to be abusive to the necks. 0.005" of total clearance is ok, I tell myself.

Results to follow!

 

[jghoghunter]

Anxiously awaiting shooting results

 

[Evan]

Pretty windy day today, but warm: 50 degrees. Wind was a pretty steady 15mph with gusts approaching 30mph. It felt like a lot. I set up at 500 yards after rezeroing at 100 since this is a brand new barrel.

This is a new bench design for me. Has to be manageable to lift in and out of the truck, handle uneven terrain, and be stable. It wasn't too bad but you couldn't do a jig behind the gun and have the crosshairs stay planted like with a concrete bench. It'll do for now.

2 shots of 25.0gn of Varget was a result of my poor planning while rezeroing and "breaking in" the barrel. I'm not a huge believer in it, but I cleaned at shot 3, 10, and 19. Here are some speeds, but keep in mind this is virgin brass and a brand new barrel:

Varget: 25gns 2600fps, 25.4gns 2670fps
H4350: 27gns 2580fps, 27.4gns 2640fps
TS15.5: 25gns 2550fps, 25,4gns 2600fps

Nothing showed signs of pressure and I consider this a huge success even though it was a little anemic. With absolutely zero data available, not blowing my face off was priority number 1. The smaller groups are all right around 1 inch, which is promising.

 

[Evan]

So the actual cut chamber neck size is probably a bit larger than 0.250". Maybe 0.252", which would be 0.007" over a loaded round. I'll have to see if the necks get hard faster than usual with so much clearance.

The loads weren't too low a pressure, because the necks sealed up nicely and didn't get sooty.

 

[Evan]

"Hot" windy day today at 65 degrees. I needed to put up some shade. I also humped the target out a bit further in a different spot - 685 yards. I'm still rocking a Magnetospeed, so you'll see a bunch of unmarked shots below that were Magnetospeed shots. I then pulled it off to shoot the marked groups.

Thought this picture was kind of cool and it showed what sort of mirage there was.

I really like how often low-slow groups impact above faster ones on the target at distance. Really reinforces my belief that the chrono is not much use for determining good loads.

Speeds are still all over the place and too low, but I'm not getting pressure and I have another 100 pieces of brass to fireform so I'm not worried. Group sizes look promising, particularly the seating depths of 9 and 12 show me the 22PPC and this barrel in particular has what it takes.

 

[RegionRat]

If I was a trust fund baby, I would wave my magic wand and buy you a radar and a ShotMarker. I would miss the colored triangle photos, but all your shots would be usable and your day would be easier. If anyone deserves a radar and e-target, you do.

Glad the new rig is working out, it has been great to follow along.

 

[Badbob]

If I was a trust fund baby, I would wave my magic wand and buy you a radar and a ShotMarker. I would miss the colored triangle photos, but all your shots would be usable and your day would be easier. If anyone deserves a radar and e-target, you do.

Glad the new rig is working out, it has been great to follow along.

I'm a fan of color coding bullets for load development. I like to pin the targets up and study them before I move on to the next step. The target tells all. Keep it up Evan and hopefully I will see you at CRC soon.

 

[Evan]

I forgot to mention that barrel heat is noticeably reduced with the 22 PPC compared to the 22BR. A quick 9-shot ladder of 3 charge weights barely changes the barrel temp. I am curious if it will heat up noticeably faster when I get up near max pressure.