22 LR Long Range Dispersion, What is the Culprit

[DShortt]

FWIW, there is another issue impacting the entire equation. None of these calculations factor one issue involving 22 LR slugs in the real world…. Bullet stability or lack there of right from the getgo. Having measured hundreds of targets at typical BR distances, it’s amazing how frequently holes verify less than stabile slugs, I would suspect impacting the whole flight time/gravity deal Over a few hundred yards.

I said the same thing basically back in post #64, but it seems no one wanted to hear it.

 

[xswanted]

So assuming you are shooting from the exact same position and the ammunition is the same, you have to raise the centerline of the bore to get the bullet to strike the target at a longer distance, assuming the height of the target remains the same. Meaning, the ground is perfectly flat, you move the target further from your shooting position and intend to strike the same target in the same spot.
It takes a bit longer for the bullet to strike the target, so it is correct to say gravity has longer to act on the bullet for two reasons. 1 - it takes longer for the bullet to reach the target at increased distance, and 2 - the bullet velocity will decrease because it's in the air longer and the resistance of flying through the atmosphere will slow it down more.
I think the fact that the centerline of the bore has to be raised to impact the target at a longer distance is the source of the confusion.

Agreed. But again gravity is acting on the bullet whether it’s flying in the air or not, it cannot have a shorter or longer effect on anything. It’s always.

The conflict with the other post was that it was stated that one gets vertical dispersion due to gravity, in which case it would be impossible to correct for. And as any person who has worked with a centerfire and reloads knows, vertical dispersion can be nearly eliminated, or at the very least tamed to an acceptable level with the right system in place. Rimfire of course doesn’t have that luxury so, test test test. Lot test and then shoot at distances you need the ammo to perform at.

To go back to the original post about vertical dispersion in a 22 I would personally say, a shooters ability to consistently handle the rifle is one of the largest contributing factors to vertical dispersion past 100 yards.

As you stated, bullet stability, and variable factors in ammo do as well.

The testing and shooting I’ve done has proved to me a few things.

1) 22lr past 200 yards is difficult due to a number of variables including shooting technique and variation in ammunition and varying environmental factors.

2) It’s possible to consistently hit targets past 200 yards with a 22lr

3) As you move beyond 250 yards everything is exponentially more difficult.

4) You can, with a lot of time, effort and money spent, hit targets from 250-300 yards, consistently.

5) We still don’t understand external ballistics as it applies to “normal” 22 bullets as the current trajectory curves are not intended for such a projectile.

Typically in NRL or PRS rimfire 300 is about the farthest you see in a match because it can be a crap shoot depending on conditions from morning until afternoon during a match. Wind of course being the main factor.

NRL22 Nationals last June max target was 250ish.

Anyway one wants to look at it, it’s fun to do and it’s accessible for a lot more people that may want to shoot “long range” with a centerfire but do not have the means or range to do such a thing.

I believe pushing this cartridge way past what it was designed and intended for is a fantastic way to learn. I know after years of shooting centerfires, it was an eye opening experience moving to a 22 and realizing what they are actually capable of in terms of accuracy at “long range”.

 

[Sniperhandle]

@CharlieNC

I learned what a vortex is today.

It's not just a scope anymore! Sorry, Couldn't help it!

 

[ISS]

Just look at the ballistic nose profile and the heel back end.

 

[jrb06]

I think the Aerospike professor needs to weigh in on this.
All kidding aside the 22lr round is one of the most versatile rounds ever manufactured, but It was never intended to be a 200-500 yard round, yet advancements in the 22lr technology has led to it being used at these long distances in some matches. Just because it can be done doesn't always mean you should, but that is what makes it fun and interesting and why we do the things we do.

Arguing your point with others on this and that rarely changes ones mind or beliefs. Assistance, shared data, and suggestions to help someone goes farther than "you are wrong and i am right". We are all here to share our experience and passion for things we enjoy doing and just because someone does it different so be it. Unless it is directly dangerous to you or someone else agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Remember everyone has the right to be wrong and you cant take that away from them!

 

[TRSR8]

I think the Aerospike professor needs to weigh in on this.
All kidding aside the 22lr round is one of the most versatile rounds ever manufactured, but It was never intended to be a 200-500 yard round, yet advancements in the 22lr technology has led to it being used at these long distances in some matches. Just because it can be done doesn't always mean you should, but that is what makes it fun and interesting and why we do the things we do.

Arguing your point with others on this and that rarely changes ones mind or beliefs. Assistance, shared data, and suggestions to help someone goes farther than "you are wrong and i am right". We are all here to share our experience and passion for things we enjoy doing and just because someone does it different so be it. Unless it is directly dangerous to you or someone else agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Remember everyone has the right to be wrong and you cant take that away from them!

You’re absolutely right and well stated.
It would, however, be somewhat constructive if a few did n’t seem driven to achieve the BS “ lifetime achievement “ award.

 

[DGP4]

For those interested in the accuracy of the .22LR beyond 100 yards, you might want to look at this very long thread testing ammo at 200 yards and the results:

50 at 200

I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags, or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard...

www.rimfirecentral.com

 

[TRSR8]

For those interested in the accuracy of the .22LR beyond 100 yards, you might want to look at this very long thread testing ammo at 200 yards and the results:

50 at 200

I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags, or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard...

www.rimfirecentral.com

Ahh, my RFC buddy and his tests….I’ve been following him and critiquing him for some time.
So you know, as nice as guy as he seems to be, according to his own words, he uses a variety equipment, apparantly none of it would be considered match grade. If memory serves one of his platforms was some kind of Marlin action with barrel secured to a hunk of wood with strap clamps. He has a variety of “ accuracy” tests, usually involving 50 shots but never uses any kind of flags because he shoots 50 when “ there’s no wind”, soooo other than “ I read it on the internet”, what do we make of that testing protocol?

 

[DGP4]

This is your chance then to use top notch equipment and wind flags galore to prove whether or not the .22LR is fit to go to 200 yards and beyond! I don't say it isn't fun to shoot out that far (I have often done so) but can anyone shoot consistently out that far?

 

[TRSR8]

This is your chance then to use top notch equipment and wind flags galore to prove whether or not the .22LR is fit to go to 200 yards and beyond! I don't say it isn't fun to shoot out that far (I have often done so) but can anyone shoot consistently out that far?

Me? Not a chance, got zero interest myself but I like to follow what they’re doing and talk to a couple well respected PRS/ELR smiths About twist rates and such
My point was, really, if you employ no basic methodology, what are you really testing?

 

[DGP4]

Fair enough! I know my own limitations and I know that I can't shoot .22LR past 100 yards with any level of accuracy that would satisfy me. Plinking at pinecones out past 200 yards is the best I can do for fun.

 

[DShortt]

You can learn a heck of a lot shooting a 22lr in the wind at 100 yds.

Just be prepared to have your butt handed to you regularly.

It's a humbling experience.

It's a relatively light bullet, traveling relatively slow with poor ballistics and then add in a fickle wind.

I take my .22lr along every range session just to see how I shot it that day. Sometimes conditions deteriorate, sometimes they improve. I think it gives me some perspective.