22 ARC Begins

[Cfshooter]

Update.

Fire formed (70) pieces of brass with Rl 15.5 and some 77gn rmr bullets that I had laying around. I didn’t load the bullets long enough and (5) rounds had light primer strikes that didn’t ignite the powder. Have about (100) rounds down the tube.

Fired (4) loads.

View attachment 1579824

View attachment 1579825

The 27.5gn of N150 was too hot so I stopped after the third case showed possible case head separation. Brass is Hornady 6 Arc fired (2) times then necked down to 22, fire formed to 22 Arc and reloaded once.

What’s your fired brass neck measure? No issue I guess with the necked down brass? My fired is .254 and necked down Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass is too thick.

 

[The boogalorian]

Thanks for sharing the info and data. More the merrier. That’s probably some of the best I have seen those RMR shoot too!

Those are groups of the 95gn SMK’s. The RMR’s I just plinked some steel.

The Hornady brass had the necks trimmed down before I necked them down.
Loaded brass measures 0.250” at the neck.
Fired brass measures 0.2535” at the neck.

 

[Cfshooter]

Those are groups of the 95gn SMK’s. The RMR’s I just plinked some steel.

The Hornady brass had the necks trimmed down before I necked them down.
Loaded brass measures 0.250” at the neck.
Fired brass measures 0.2535” at the neck.

Ah, I was impressed thinking they were rmr. Mine measures about the same fired, tight necks they area.

 

[Cfshooter]

So back out to test some seating depths today. I think I will stay with the 1.735 (2.235) and go confirm it at 300 yards. Will test the n540 charge at that depth too.

 

[Cfshooter]

Another data post. Some new brass fireforming with a generic bulk load with Staball Match and bulk 68 BTHP. Just guessed on a charge and seating

 

[Cfshooter]

Fresh 22ARC data.

The N540 showed well with the 85.5’s, a little on the slow side, but should still be able to take advantage of the BC even below 2700.

The H4350 didn’t like the combo in this barrel. Showed good speed, but SD a bit high across the board and nothing great with the POI. I will shelf that one.

 

[The boogalorian]

Just got a tracking number from Starline. Brass should be in hand soon. Will have some time to neck it down on the holiday weekend. Might be a few weeks before my testing continues. :/

 

[Cfshooter]

I think I will keep these loads right where they are. Not as fast as I was hoping for but shooting very well and still should give 2-3” improvement in the wind adjustments at 600.

 

[Lefty2506]

Thanks for posting this information. I've been keeping my eyes pealed for information like this to see what the 22 ARC is actually capable of thinking that it would be a really good option for something in between a .223/5.56 and a 22-250 or 22 Creedmoor. In a 20" barrel, those speeds are probably what I would have expected to see. I was thinking you'd be about 200 fps faster than a hot 5.56/223, but with the shorter barrel it makes sense that they are about even to published VV data for a max 223 load.

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

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I’m shooting an 88 over 30g of 4350, 2960 fps in a 24” barrel. Here’s a 9 round group at a 100. Shot factory ammo yesterday in a prs day match scored 4th place

Impressive! Looks like the extra few inches really make a huge difference in performance with this cartridge.

 

[Cfshooter]

Thanks for posting this information. I've been keeping my eyes pealed for information like this to see what the 22 ARC is actually capable of thinking that it would be a really good option for something in between a .223/5.56 and a 22-250 or 22 Creedmoor. In a 20" barrel, those speeds are probably what I would have expected to see. I was thinking you'd be about 200 fps faster than a hot 5.56/223, but with the shorter barrel it makes sense that they are about even to published VV data for a max 223 load.

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

Impressive! Looks like the extra few inches really make a huge difference in performance with this cartridge.

I am well below pressure with the 85.5 load and about 4k over gas gun book pressure with the 80.5 but they show no signs of being too high. I’m sure there is plenty more there. I think you can probably go up to bolt gun pressures, but since these loads are shoot so well, I will stay here and be easy on the brass. If you want more speed, RL15.5 seems to be the best for getting the most speed out of the 85.5’s without going extremely high in pressure.

 

[Lefty2506]

I am well below pressure with the 85.5 load and about 4k over gas gun book pressure with the 80.5 but they show no signs of being too high. I’m sure there is plenty more there. I think you can probably go up to bolt gun pressures, but since these loads are shoot so well, I will stay here and be easy on the brass. If you want more speed, RL15.5 seems to be the best for getting the most speed out of the 85.5’s without going extremely high in pressure.

If I get one, it will most likely be a bolt gun. My opinion has long been that on an AR15 format, the 223AI has about all the case capacity you can effectively use. I'm sure a 22 ARC can get slightly better performance, especially with the heavy stuff and a long tube, but the gains are small enough that (for me) it wouldn't be worth the cost of the more expensive brass. A bolt gun, on the other hand, could be a different story. Even if you're not getting every ounce of speed you possibly can, you should still be able to pick up at least an extra 200 fps over a .223/5.56 load without being hard on the brass. There are other cartridges out there that operate within the same range (22ppc, 22Hagar, 22BR, ect), but the 22 ARC currently has some factory support, and even if it didn't, once fired 6.5 G brass should still be reasonably priced, and easy to work with. The thing I'm looking to see is whether or not the 22ARC has any practical advantages over the bigger options like the 22-250 and 22 Creedmoor. I realize that in practice, the advertised claims that the 22 ARC rivals a 22-250 is a total load of BS (embarrassingly more so in an AR15), but for something like Prairie Dogs, burning noticeably less powder in the barrel could help keep the temps down so you can get a lot more rounds on target.

 

[Cfshooter]

If I get one, it will most likely be a bolt gun. My opinion has long been that on an AR15 format, the 223AI has about all the case capacity you can effectively use. I'm sure a 22 ARC can get slightly better performance, especially with the heavy stuff and a long tube, but the gains are small enough that (for me) it wouldn't be worth the cost of the more expensive brass. A bolt gun, on the other hand, could be a different story. Even if you're not getting every ounce of speed you possibly can, you should still be able to pick up at least an extra 200 fps over a .223/5.56 load without being hard on the brass. There are other cartridges out there that operate within the same range (22ppc, 22Hagar, 22BR, ect), but the 22 ARC currently has some factory support, and even if it didn't, once fired 6.5 G brass should still be reasonably priced, and easy to work with. The thing I'm looking to see is whether or not the 22ARC has any practical advantages over the bigger options like the 22-250 and 22 Creedmoor. I realize that in practice, the advertised claims that the 22 ARC rivals a 22-250 is a total load of BS (embarrassingly more so in an AR15), but for something like Prairie Dogs, burning noticeably less powder in the barrel could help keep the temps down so you can get a lot more rounds on target.

You nailed it, the biggest thing is less powder than 22-250 and 22 CM. And you will get more velocity with that bolt gun and can run at higher pressures, the AR bolt is the weak link. The bolt gun allows for 10k more pressure. So far though, I think this 22 arc is an easy button to load for, probably get it to shoot well in any bolt gun barrel.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Been so busy, just no time for testing or shooting period of late. But, I took a few minutes to work up what looks like a decent load for my no turn Borden 22 ARC bench rifle. N135 shot small but was slow. Topped out around 3400fps when I ran out of capacity. Could've got maybe another half grain with a long drop tube and slow pour but it just wasn't close to the speed I'm hoping for with it so went to n133.
30.8 gr and a 55 gr UBR bullet by Danny Hensley shot at 3730 fps(es of 9) and shot well given the conditions. Barrel length is 23". Mirage was pretty brutal. Still way more to do but the gun and load looks like it'll shoot there or very close. Five shot group of .160 at 100 with one that hurt it most. Pretty sure it was the mirage as the target was dancing pretty good and it went where it should, just not where I wanted it to. Lol! The other 4 were mid zero ish.

This is not a pussyfoot load! Might have a tad more left in it but definitely work up before going anywhere close to this outta the gate. Was hoping for around 3800-3850 fps and it might be there but I'm not sure it'll get there with n133. Working up, the groups acted like I want and no surprises. It acted pretty much just like a 6 PPC but faster.

This is not book data and certainly not AR data so work up with caution, only in a good bolt rifle and stop when you see any signs of pressure in YOUR gun! This one left a very faint faint ejector mark on the cases and primers are pretty flat. Just use caution but this little cartridge will shoot and it's fast for it's size.

 

[Cfshooter]

Been so busy, just no time for testing or shooting period of late. But, I took a few minutes to work up what looks like a decent load for my no turn Borden 22 ARC bench rifle. N135 shot small but was slow. Topped out around 3400fps when I ran out of capacity. Could've got maybe another half grain with a long drop tube and slow pour but it just wasn't close to the speed I'm hoping for with it so went to n133.
30.8 gr and a 55 gr UBR bullet by Danny Hensley shot at 3730 fps(es of 9) and shot well given the conditions. Barrel length is 23". Mirage was pretty brutal. Still way more to do but the gun and load looks like it'll shoot there or very close. Five shot group of .160 at 100 with one that hurt it most. Pretty sure it was the mirage as the target was dancing pretty good and it went where it should, just not where I wanted it to. Lol! The other 4 were mid zero ish.

This is not a pussyfoot load! Might have a tad more left in it but definitely work up before going anywhere close to this outta the gate. Was hoping for around 3800-3850 fps and it might be there but I'm not sure it'll get there with n133. Working up, the groups acted like I want and no surprises. It acted pretty much just like a 6 PPC but faster.

This is not book data and certainly not AR data so work up with caution, only in a good bolt rifle and stop when you see any signs of pressure in YOUR gun! This one left a very faint faint ejector mark on the cases and primers are pretty flat. Just use caution but this little cartridge will shoot and it's fast for it's size.

Making me jealous lol. That thing is shooting well!

Tell me about your no turn chamber, did you ream out the neck or use a custom reamer when chambering? What is the brass neck OD after firing?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Making me jealous lol. That thing is shooting well!

Tell me about your no turn chamber, did you ream out the neck or use a custom reamer when chambering? What is the brass neck OD after firing?

Good question, actually. I had the reamer ground as a no-turn at .253 but it was too tight for the newer Grendel Lapua brass. I opened it up to .257 and it works great. I probably woulda used a .255 or .256 reamer but didn't have one. Loaded round is .2525-253ish with this brass. I don't see a down side to an extra thou clearance.
I'm still perfecting things with the load and pretty sure I can get even more speed but I'm pretty close to maxed out with n133. Have a Nats coming up and brass is hard to come by too, so I don't wanna over pressure new brass right off. I think it's ok for several firings where I am but temp changes MIGHT take it to too hot. Just don't know enough yet with it. Might have 50 rounds down it so far at most.

As for Nats, I have very low expectations due to shooting virtually none for a year now. But, I've never missed a UBR Nats since its inception and I plan to go have fun and see everyone regardless. From what I can see so far, the gun won't be the fault but I will be. Lol! It takes more than luck to beat that crowd so even if I have a good day, it won't likely be what I typically prepare like for this match. I'll draw no conclusions from it before next season either way. I do think 3900 fps is attainable with the right powder though and that's super impressive all by itself.

This is a little test of a different chamber design, fwiw. The area at the end of the case mouth in the chamber is typically a 45° angle. I've laid this down to 15°. So far, so good in a couple done this way but still wayy too early. Hope is better bbl life mostly. It's shooting well so that part seems to be fine so far.

 

[Cfshooter]

Good question, actually. I had the reamer ground as a no-turn at .253 but it was too tight for the newer Grendel Lapua brass. I opened it up to .257 and it works great. I probably woulda used a .255 or .256 reamer but didn't have one. Loaded round is .2525-253ish with this brass. I don't see a down side to an extra thou clearance.
I'm still perfecting things with the load and pretty sure I can get even more speed but I'm pretty close to maxed out with n133. Have a Nats coming up and brass is hard to come by too, so I don't wanna over pressure new brass right off. I think it's ok for several firings where I am but temp changes MIGHT take it to too hot. Just don't know enough yet with it. Might have 50 rounds down it so far at most.

As for Nats, I have very low expectations due to shooting virtually none for a year now. But, I've never missed a UBR Nats since its inception and I plan to go have fun and see everyone regardless. From what I can see so far, the gun won't be the fault but I will be. Lol! It takes more than luck to beat that crowd so even if I have a good day, it won't likely be what I typically prepare like for this match. I'll draw no conclusions from it before next season either way. I do think 3900 fps is attainable with the right powder though and that's super impressive all by itself.

This is a little test of a different chamber design, fwiw. The area at the end of the case mouth in the chamber is typically a 45° angle. I've laid this down to 15°. So far, so good in a couple done this way but still wayy too early. Hope is better bbl life mostly. It's shooting well so that part seems to be fine so far.

thanks for all that info, so when you going to have a reamer with a .256-.257 neck? I will send you a blank when you get it lol. I'm sending my new grendel brass to a friend now since I cant use it. Hoping .256 becomes the norm soon, or others start making 22 arc specific brass. Good luck at the match!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

thanks for all that info, so when you going to have a reamer with a .256-.257 neck? I will send you a blank when you get it lol. I'm sending my new grendel brass to a friend now since I cant use it. Hoping .256 becomes the norm soon, or others start making 22 arc specific brass. Good luck at the match!

Since there is really no "normal" at the moment, I have no plans to order a different reamer unless/until that changes. A chucking reamer in the same setup as it's chambered in,, is very good. Not sure it can be much better. That's why I think it's best to neck up your brass first, measure several and still, go a tad over that, in order to hopefully have a no turn on the next lot. No other way to put it right now...we're chasing a moving target and there is NO perfect ND right now. Hope that changes but it is what it is. I'd rather be too loose than too tight unless you are willing to skim cut the necks. In which case, the .253 is great. I'd turn for a .251 loaded round for that. That WAS about right for Lapua brass but it got thicker with the later lots. That's just outside of the gunsmith's control, unfortunately.

 

[The boogalorian]

I have 500 pieces of Starline 6.5 Grendel brass to neck down this weekend. I am going to do a skim cut then anneal and neck down in two steps. Will post results when I find the correct process. I will be looking for loaded necks around 0.250”-0.251”.

 

[Cfshooter]

Since there is really no "normal" at the moment, I have no plans to order a different reamer unless/until that changes. A chucking reamer in the same setup as it's chambered in,, is very good. Not sure it can be much better. That's why I think it's best to neck up your brass first, measure several and still, go a tad over that, in order to hopefully have a no turn on the next lot. No other way to put it right now...we're chasing a moving target and there is NO perfect ND right now. Hope that changes but it is what it is. I'd rather be too loose than too tight unless you are willing to skim cut the necks. In which case, the .253 is great.

Yeah, I will just stick with the Hornady 22 arc brass, it works well, just not sure how long it will last and they sure are proud of it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yeah, I will just stick with the Hornady 22 arc brass, it works well, just not sure how long it will last and they sure are proud of it.

It WON'T work at the pressures I mentioned. Really not even worth bothering with even trying it, ime. If you wanna load down in the 50kpsi range, different story.