I need some help with my new Mod. 700 vs-sf ll 22-250.I had some factory Federal 55 gr factory loads that I shot so I could reload the brass and they shot fairly well a couple groups were about 5/8 inch.So I prepped the brass,case trimmed and used Fed 210-m primers 30.8 and 31.7 grains Varget with 55 gr V-max bullets, I seated them .004 away from the lands The groups were terrible, probably 3 to 4 inches.So I decided to go up to 32.7 and 33.6 grains and seat the 55 grain V-maxes to the Hornady spec overall length 2.350 c.o.l. which is about .140 from the lands, these also were very large groups and the primers were cratered and some were somewhat hard to extract. I should note that these reloads were all neck sized. I understand that rem 700's have a tendency to have a large firing pin hole in the bolt and that a bushing will solve that. I had 25 factory Federal 22-250's left and shot them and they were like night and day compared to my reloads. Any help would be appreciated.
22-250 remington
- Thread starter zebra
- Start date
Zebra- Lot of possibilities... I would start with a review of your reloading processes and measurements... check scale calibration, etc, then compare your reload dimensions with SAMMI specs. Also measure a factory cartridge - case base and neck diameters and COAL to verify your reloads measure up to the factory loads.
Your loads are straight from the Hornady manual; Varget is an excellent powder for the 22-250; I assume a common primer,?). Any of thes loads should beat 3-4 MOA, and should not create excessive pressure. These should not be hot loades, but the "cratered" primer is a definite question. In a hot loat, primers usually flatten and the edges become sharp. In really hot loads they are more than just flat; they flow outward at the edges of the primer pocket so they have a slightly mushroom-headed profile when you decap them. Depending on how tightly your firing pin fits, they may flow around the firing pin and into its hole, so the firing pin indentation looks like a lunar crater with the edges of the indentation raised above the flat of the primer like crater walls. This, appropriately enough, is called cratering.
To summarize: I would verify accurate charge weight, full length resize the cases, and ensure all case and cartridge measurements meet specs.
Your loads are straight from the Hornady manual; Varget is an excellent powder for the 22-250; I assume a common primer,?). Any of thes loads should beat 3-4 MOA, and should not create excessive pressure. These should not be hot loades, but the "cratered" primer is a definite question. In a hot loat, primers usually flatten and the edges become sharp. In really hot loads they are more than just flat; they flow outward at the edges of the primer pocket so they have a slightly mushroom-headed profile when you decap them. Depending on how tightly your firing pin fits, they may flow around the firing pin and into its hole, so the firing pin indentation looks like a lunar crater with the edges of the indentation raised above the flat of the primer like crater walls. This, appropriately enough, is called cratering.
To summarize: I would verify accurate charge weight, full length resize the cases, and ensure all case and cartridge measurements meet specs.
I read your post with great interest as I am the proud owner of a new Weatherby 22/250 MK V SVM. I reload and have fired the rifle a total of 4 times. My brass looks normal after shooting.,wanted to try it out as I do not have the scope mounted yet, still waiting on the proper bases) One thing to take note of is that the Speer reloading manual #14 states that the 22/250 can be difficult to reload in that the powder measurement must be accurate as very small inconsistencies in charge weight can drastically effect bullet and cartridge performance. I hope this bit of info helps you out.
Cheers & Tighter Groups: The old Eaglesnester
Cheers & Tighter Groups: The old Eaglesnester
I have a Winchester coyote and i tried for years to get 55gr bullets to shoot and i couldn't get them to fly. I found better accuracy by going with a 50gr bullet. The load that I have had the best luck with is 36.5gr of varget with 50gr vmax.
I can recommend IMR4320, AA2460 for 55 & 60's...These have worked well for me in the past with 55-60's. The 1-14" twist combined with the 250's velocity should shoot the 55's good...
Do you know how to do a ladder TEST,Craten/Audette? test)??? I used to spend hours upon hours at the range tweaking a load until I found the sweet spot...NOW I usually shorten my load developement time to at around 3 maybe four trips maX!
_____________________________________________________________
A very good friend of mine who shoots circles around me taught me this system and beleive me I will never go at it any other way because this WORKS!
Quick ladder lesson,I am no expert-but this has saved me hours/days of frustration and I hope it helps you if I can explain it clearly enough):
First I would like to start off by saying all of my loads are developed at 300 yards and mostly off of a bi-pod/rear bag at least for my F-T/R. I would recommend at least 200 yards, VLD's and some BT's like 300 to strut their true potential. If you have ever seen a quaterback throw a PERFECT SPIRAL the ball usually leaves the hand with a slight wobble then it TRIMS out and spins like its on a shaft! YOUR bullet believe it or not does somethnig similar,though not as dramatic), and that is why I shoot 300yards,the bullet is good and stable spinning on its axis).
1) Pick the powder,in the burn rate you want), primer, bullet, case you want to shoot! I usually start .010" to .018" off the lands!
2)If you know that you will probably shoot somewhere between 34-37 grains___load 2 EACH 34/34, 34.5/34.5, 35/35, 35.5/35.5, etc...SO when you are done you have two rows,like climbing a ladder- 34-37,in 1/2 grain increments in large and medium sized cases- small cases like the 223 do it in tenths of a grain, like 22, 22.2, 22.4, etc...) low to high then a 2nd row same THING 34-37)
3)PUT up two spotters or targets! CLEAN YOUR GUN REALLY GOOD-THEN fire one fouler somewhere down range. THEN fire the first row at the 1st SPOTTER! SAME Point of aim! no scope adjustments you are looking for the vertical dispersion!
4)DO NOT clean!
Shoot the 2nd row at the 2nd spotter, I usually give the gun about 5-10 minutes to cool a little with a heavy barrel and around 15-20 minutes for a sporter wieght barrel.
5) You need to try and chart your bullet impacts as you go, so you know what did what. I usally just take a note pad and draw them in on it as I go...I then trasnfer the powder weight to the target I just shot that way I can use it as a reference.
EVALUATE___IF the first trip looks promising I leave things alone IF not I try the same thing with a second seating depth, i.e., started .010" off I mgiht go back and try .020" VLD and BERGERS usually like to be in or at the rifling so they are an exception as far as seating depth.
6)Collect your target,I usually use a cheap roll of brown wrapping pape from the dollar store to paster up my backer then simply put up two stickers,the stickers I use came off of a massive role I found on the side of the road/ The roll is getting smaller now though as I have had it a few years)!
7) Evaluate your shots, YOU are looking for vertical dispersion,MY orange dot I PULLED/CALLED the low 43.5g shot) BUT note that the four shots in the center measure approx 1 1/2" wide by .800" high,300 yards)___THAT is what you are looking for because anything in between those loads should shoot,if you want speed- load the upper edge,mine would have been 44.5 grains)! I settled on 44g because in the long haul I can sqeeze a few more rounds out of a KEG with 1/2 grain less in each round give or take a little every 90th bullet is a free-bee!
8) DAY TWO at the range load up what ever MIDDLE charge you want to shoot and load up groups of 5 or 6 with .010" in or out of what you just shot and one duplicate depth load AGAIN all of these will have all componants then same ONLY difference is the seating depths! THIS is your final sqeeze for accuracy! IF you are happy___go home and load away! **I am going back tomorrow for final testing__looking for a little more on the small side!
9) THIRD day_ go back and ZERO your RIG!
If I have not bored you yet!
I attached a ladder test I did yesterday with my 308 at 300 yards! shooting 175SMK, Horn match brass, Wolf, and Varget...Loaded to sets of 6 rounds, 43g, 43.5g, 35.7g, 44g, 44.5g, and 45g,shot this before before barrel set-back so I went back to try it again-he used a diffeent reamer this time/ longer throat) I threw in the 35.7 because before the barrel was set back the 35.5-44 really shot well...THE ORANGE DOT! SIX powder weights with 1.5 grains from the top to the bottom and it shot roughly a 2.458" outside group under ONE MOA! NOTICE 45grains went high and right believe or not this barrel shot 45gr high/right before the barrel was set back with the weight!
Then I went back today to try a group with 44g's...with TWO seating depths one the SAME and one .010" out. EVERY barrel has a sweet spot,sine wave harmony) there is a high and low portion of the wave and most will shoot really well in either the top or bottom velocity wise...Kind of what Browning tried to do with their BOSS system a few years back where a non-reloader could tune his or her barrel versus tuning the load to find the SWEET SPOT...
The actual target you see is from today with 44grains nothing else changed to see what the group would do! I called the ONE the dropped down and right. The group measures around 1.8" outside, and again the low shot was me, as far as the acutal group the wind was switching left/right with short bursts and could account for the horizontal spread/or my trigger finger? THIS load would probably be VERY small if it was shot in a test craddle in a tunnel. I still have not set a zero yet looking for group then I will dial in! I'm going back tomorrow for day three...going to try .005" either side of the previous depths. SHOULD be a keeper in there somewhere. I am hoping for more stable conditions.
GOOD LUCK with your rifle!
Do you know how to do a ladder TEST,Craten/Audette? test)??? I used to spend hours upon hours at the range tweaking a load until I found the sweet spot...NOW I usually shorten my load developement time to at around 3 maybe four trips maX!
_____________________________________________________________
A very good friend of mine who shoots circles around me taught me this system and beleive me I will never go at it any other way because this WORKS!
Quick ladder lesson,I am no expert-but this has saved me hours/days of frustration and I hope it helps you if I can explain it clearly enough):
First I would like to start off by saying all of my loads are developed at 300 yards and mostly off of a bi-pod/rear bag at least for my F-T/R. I would recommend at least 200 yards, VLD's and some BT's like 300 to strut their true potential. If you have ever seen a quaterback throw a PERFECT SPIRAL the ball usually leaves the hand with a slight wobble then it TRIMS out and spins like its on a shaft! YOUR bullet believe it or not does somethnig similar,though not as dramatic), and that is why I shoot 300yards,the bullet is good and stable spinning on its axis).
1) Pick the powder,in the burn rate you want), primer, bullet, case you want to shoot! I usually start .010" to .018" off the lands!
2)If you know that you will probably shoot somewhere between 34-37 grains___load 2 EACH 34/34, 34.5/34.5, 35/35, 35.5/35.5, etc...SO when you are done you have two rows,like climbing a ladder- 34-37,in 1/2 grain increments in large and medium sized cases- small cases like the 223 do it in tenths of a grain, like 22, 22.2, 22.4, etc...) low to high then a 2nd row same THING 34-37)
3)PUT up two spotters or targets! CLEAN YOUR GUN REALLY GOOD-THEN fire one fouler somewhere down range. THEN fire the first row at the 1st SPOTTER! SAME Point of aim! no scope adjustments you are looking for the vertical dispersion!
4)DO NOT clean!
Shoot the 2nd row at the 2nd spotter, I usually give the gun about 5-10 minutes to cool a little with a heavy barrel and around 15-20 minutes for a sporter wieght barrel.
5) You need to try and chart your bullet impacts as you go, so you know what did what. I usally just take a note pad and draw them in on it as I go...I then trasnfer the powder weight to the target I just shot that way I can use it as a reference.
EVALUATE___IF the first trip looks promising I leave things alone IF not I try the same thing with a second seating depth, i.e., started .010" off I mgiht go back and try .020" VLD and BERGERS usually like to be in or at the rifling so they are an exception as far as seating depth.
6)Collect your target,I usually use a cheap roll of brown wrapping pape from the dollar store to paster up my backer then simply put up two stickers,the stickers I use came off of a massive role I found on the side of the road/ The roll is getting smaller now though as I have had it a few years)!
7) Evaluate your shots, YOU are looking for vertical dispersion,MY orange dot I PULLED/CALLED the low 43.5g shot) BUT note that the four shots in the center measure approx 1 1/2" wide by .800" high,300 yards)___THAT is what you are looking for because anything in between those loads should shoot,if you want speed- load the upper edge,mine would have been 44.5 grains)! I settled on 44g because in the long haul I can sqeeze a few more rounds out of a KEG with 1/2 grain less in each round give or take a little every 90th bullet is a free-bee!
8) DAY TWO at the range load up what ever MIDDLE charge you want to shoot and load up groups of 5 or 6 with .010" in or out of what you just shot and one duplicate depth load AGAIN all of these will have all componants then same ONLY difference is the seating depths! THIS is your final sqeeze for accuracy! IF you are happy___go home and load away! **I am going back tomorrow for final testing__looking for a little more on the small side!
9) THIRD day_ go back and ZERO your RIG!
If I have not bored you yet!
I attached a ladder test I did yesterday with my 308 at 300 yards! shooting 175SMK, Horn match brass, Wolf, and Varget...Loaded to sets of 6 rounds, 43g, 43.5g, 35.7g, 44g, 44.5g, and 45g,shot this before before barrel set-back so I went back to try it again-he used a diffeent reamer this time/ longer throat) I threw in the 35.7 because before the barrel was set back the 35.5-44 really shot well...THE ORANGE DOT! SIX powder weights with 1.5 grains from the top to the bottom and it shot roughly a 2.458" outside group under ONE MOA! NOTICE 45grains went high and right believe or not this barrel shot 45gr high/right before the barrel was set back with the weight!
Then I went back today to try a group with 44g's...with TWO seating depths one the SAME and one .010" out. EVERY barrel has a sweet spot,sine wave harmony) there is a high and low portion of the wave and most will shoot really well in either the top or bottom velocity wise...Kind of what Browning tried to do with their BOSS system a few years back where a non-reloader could tune his or her barrel versus tuning the load to find the SWEET SPOT...
The actual target you see is from today with 44grains nothing else changed to see what the group would do! I called the ONE the dropped down and right. The group measures around 1.8" outside, and again the low shot was me, as far as the acutal group the wind was switching left/right with short bursts and could account for the horizontal spread/or my trigger finger? THIS load would probably be VERY small if it was shot in a test craddle in a tunnel. I still have not set a zero yet looking for group then I will dial in! I'm going back tomorrow for day three...going to try .005" either side of the previous depths. SHOULD be a keeper in there somewhere. I am hoping for more stable conditions.
GOOD LUCK with your rifle!
I've found that the classic 22-250 load of 38 grains of H-380 with 52 grain bullets works great. I'm getting groups that are around the high 1's -low 2's at 3,550 fps. It's a bull barreled Ruger of all things, that has been bedded, free floated and the trigger massaged.
This load may help down the line, but for now you need to solve your 2" problem. Have you tried seating into the lands?
Have you checked the neck thickness on your brass?
It's a litle pricey but changing to Lapua brass would eliminate some major variables. Cabela's has it at the best price.
I shoot it in my target guns and it's truely amazing.
Run out is virtually nil, case length and weight is not worth measuring.
This is a 3 shot group.
This load may help down the line, but for now you need to solve your 2" problem. Have you tried seating into the lands?
Have you checked the neck thickness on your brass?
It's a litle pricey but changing to Lapua brass would eliminate some major variables. Cabela's has it at the best price.
I shoot it in my target guns and it's truely amazing.
Run out is virtually nil, case length and weight is not worth measuring.
This is a 3 shot group.
I agree with Twud's recommendation, you need to try this clasic load. You can't go wrong using a #2249 Hornady 52gr BTHP match bullet & 38.0Ggr/H380. There a old story that Bruce Hodgdon named H380 because he produced a .380 ten shot group with this combination on his first testing, at that time his 22-250 was still a wildcat. I've never found a 22-250 that it didn't shoot well in. It's served me well over the years and producing my first five shot one hole group when I started reloading. Don't be afraid to use this bullet on varmints.
Good luck
RJ
Good luck
RJ
bought a new rem. 22-250 vsf several years ago. gun shot 1 to 1 1/2 at 100 yrds with 55 gr. bullets called remington and they said they had no accuracy standard that was good. started noticing pressure problems win. factory loads and reloads found that neck was too tight gave up and rechambered to ackley helped some what on accuracy.finally settled on rl-15 and 40 noslers. 4 in one ragged hole ond 1 out still shoots the same after14 plus pounds of rl-15 down barrel.when this barrel is toast 6mm ackley. will try to buy savages from now on easy to get to shoot. looked at a 700 vssf 220 swift the other day 1250 dollars from gander mt. pretty gun too hihg of price can buy a savage for half that amount and know it will shoot plus it has a decent trigger
I haven't seated the bullet on the lands because I have heard they shoot better off the lands, so I seat them .020 off. I've tried H-380, Varget and IMR 4064 and IMR 4064 shot the best groups. I've tried Nosler 55 gr ballistic tips Horn. 50 and 55 gr. V-maxes Horn 55 spire pts. and Sierra 52 and 53 gr matchkings and for the most my 22-250 doesn't like any polycarbonate tipped nor boat tail bullets.I've got the Horn. 55 spire pts to shoot in the sixes and the Sierra 53 matchkings into the fives with 36.5 grs of IMR 4064. Maybe I should back off a little powder and move them into the lands to see if that helps.
.020 may be a little too far out; I would try .010, perhaps move a little closer, see what happens to your groups. My current loads range from .005 to .018 from the rifle lands. I avoid seating at the lands... strange things happen with pressure, and, unless you are a BR shooter, you probably won't recognize that last 'Nth' degree of accuracy anyway.
IMO, boat tail bullets are over used; in many rifles, a flat base shoots better, especially under 300 yards. The 53g Matchkings shoot well in many 22-250s,including mine), but may not be a good hunting bullet.
When you find a good load, the last thing to test is a different primer,s). Changing primers will usually have a slight affect on group size, for better or worse, so its good to know you are using the one which delivers the most accuracy for your load.
IMO, boat tail bullets are over used; in many rifles, a flat base shoots better, especially under 300 yards. The 53g Matchkings shoot well in many 22-250s,including mine), but may not be a good hunting bullet.
When you find a good load, the last thing to test is a different primer,s). Changing primers will usually have a slight affect on group size, for better or worse, so its good to know you are using the one which delivers the most accuracy for your load.
Try a 50 gr V-max, around 35 gr of RL-15 and a Winchester primer. Don't know why but mine prefers the WInchester primer over the rest. Seat about .005" off the lands.
Check your case length, depending on the chamber and the brass, 22-250s can lengthen quite a bit in the neck even after a single firing.
Check your case length, depending on the chamber and the brass, 22-250s can lengthen quite a bit in the neck even after a single firing.
My El Cheapo Stevens 200 22-250 with 1 in 14" twist shot Factory Remington 55gr softpoints into no less than 1.25 moa thats over a third of a mil!! I Correctly broke in the barrel and still shot factory ammo over 1 moa. Have been full length sizing cases for reliability in hunting conditions with 55gr Speer TNT and when pushed with 38 grains of H380 am able to cloverleaf 3 shots at 100 and shoot conssistant sub moa groups at 200 and 250 yards...havent been able to shoot 300 yet. I have been able to test the load on a crow at 200 yards and on the snow it made for quite a sight...feathers...parts...blood for 60' radius of bird! The bullet entered the chest and fully fragmented by the wings because from there back there was no bird. Exlosive expansion and pinpoint accuracy...my new bullet of choice. Remember that I am only shooting a budget rifle that cost me $400 including the Tasco 6-24x42 varmit scope!!!
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