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22-250 + Lapua brass = clickers on first time firing Remedy? (problem solved!)

Shinbone

Got a new-to-me Kimber Montana in 22-250. While running through a range of charge weights with CFE-223 using virgin Lapua brass to find max pressure, I started experiencing "clickers" way before any of the traditional/more common pressure signs started to show. This is the first time I have loaded for this cartridge, the first time I've worked with Lapua brass, and the first time I have ever experienced clickers.

The web of the Lapua brass expands about .001" on the first firing in this rifle. Running this first-time fired brass through my Redding full-length resizing die, the web is sized down about .001" There is a bright ring on the re-sized web, suggesting to me that is where most if not all of the re-sizing is occurring. Since the brass is being resized back to the size that originally gave clickers, I am expecting to get clickers, again. The bolt is a little stiff when chambering this re-sized brass, too.

What is going to be the easiest way remedy to this problem? After reading the explanation for why clickers occur, and all the trials and tribulations of others experiencing clickers with other cartridges, I am thinking maybe I should just write off this Lapua brass and try my luck with a different brand? Anyone got any better suggestions?

TIA

 
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I recently ordered a new reamer for a 22-250 and Lapua brass. I bought the brass first and measured it to determine reamer specs. After I determined what I thought the dimensions should be, I compared them to SAAMI. My reamer is .0012" larger at the .200" mark than SAAMI specs.

Based on that, I think your different brass strategy is a good one.
 
Shinbone said:
Got a new-to-me Kimber Montana in 22-250. While running through a range of charge weights with CFE-223 using virgin Lapua brass to find max pressure, I started experiencing "clickers" way before any of the traditional/more common pressure signs started to show. This is the first time I have loaded for this cartridge, the first time I've worked with Lapua brass, and the first time I have ever experienced clickers.

The web of the Lapua brass expands about .001" on the first firing in this rifle. Running this first-time fired brass through my Redding full-length resizing die, the web is sized down about .001" There is a bright ring on the re-sized web, suggesting to me that is where most if not all of the re-sizing is occurring. Since the brass is being resized back to the size that originally gave clickers, I am expecting to get clickers, again. The bolt is a little stiff when chambering this re-sized brass, too.

What is going to be the easiest way remedy to this problem? After reading the explanation for why clickers occur, and all the trials and tribulations of others experiencing clickers with other cartridges, I am thinking maybe I should just write off this Lapua brass and try my luck with a different brand? Anyone got any better suggestions?

TIA

Click to expand...
Your chamber is large
 
Respectfully, I disagree with the chamber too large diagnosis. Back in the day, some 6PPC shooters thought that they might improve accuracy by shaving a few tenths off of the diameter of the back of the chamber. This was quickly abandoned when they discovered that they had early clicker problems. I personally know of other examples where chambers were too close to the size of unfired brass. My suggestion is that you look at the differences in near the head diameter of different brands of brass, and choose one that is smaller than the Lapua. (Assuming you don't want to rechamber) Just out of curiosity, how did you choose your seating depth?
 
BoydAllen said:
Just out of curiosity, how did you choose your seating depth?
Click to expand...

This from a similar bullet, Berger Flat Base Target. I was going to refine jump for the Berger Flat Base Varmint once I found a powder and charge weight. The bullets are so close in design that I figured it should be a good place to start. You can see I was getting clickers during this jump test, too.

 
Is this SP or LP Lapua brass?
I am using SP brass myself and get clickers as well. My Remington brass is .005” smaller on average at the web over Lapua brass.
I have 300 odd Winchester cases that also get clickers after 10 firings with just neck sizing. This is in a different rifle, it’s my mid-range 22-250AI F-open rifle.
Sometimes a little more sizing is in order.

Cheers.
 
"Sometimes a little more sizing is in order."

And how would that be done? Are we talking a custom die?

How does the Winchester brass web size compare to the Lapua?


The brass is Large Rifle primer:

 
IMO it is not a die issue(but I would like to know how much your FL die reduces the base of the case). It is a unfired brass to chamber fit issue. Note in previous post the difference mentioned between the Lapua and the Remington. .005 is significant. I would be that the difference between Winchester and Federal would be similar.
 
Great pictures. Can we get some unfired of other brands from anyone on this thread? Just for fun, and unrelated, take a look at shoulder diameter, virgin to once fired, to sized. I think that you may learn something about this caliber.
 
I had 22-250 brass that did this to me in a 22-250 AI. Gave Lapua to a friend and bought Ww brass, clickers/problem solved.
Sucks that 200 rounds of brass at about $180 was ‘no good’ for me ....
 
If those measurements are accurate, your chamber is smaller than SAAMI.

The minimum SAAMI spec at the .200" line is .4681".
 
Ed - Thanks for that observation, and, it makes sense because, with the chamber sized the way it is, the Lapua brass clicks and the re-sizer die is ineffective. 2 against 1.

I've got a Sako Forester in 22-250 enroute. I'll see if the Finnish brass works in a Finnish chamber, or, will they fight like family members? Hopefully, this Lapua brass won't be a wasted purchase and prep time.

I also ordered Winchester, Nosler, and Prvi brass. I'll see if any of those work in the Kimber chamber.
 
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The only small base die for 22-250 I can find is made by RCBS. RCBS says their SBD not only sizes down the web more than a standard die, it also bumps back the shoulder more, as well. All this so the 22-250 will chamber more reliably in auto-loaders.

I wish there was an option to size the web smaller without the additional shoulder bump.
 
Shinbone said:
I wish there was an option to size the web smaller without the additional shoulder bump.
Click to expand...
Wait & see how that die works. You might find you don’t have to screw it in so far as to push the shoulders back while it still does what you bought it for on the case sides near the extractor groove.

On another vector: you made a casting of your chamber yet? Maybe it’s not quite up to spec, or done with a worn reamer... maybe a bit tight somewhere it’s not supposed to be.
 
Shinbone, lot of us have been down this road, and the answer is very simple. Do not use Lapua or Norma brass in your chamber, problem solved. Don't try and pick the black specs out of the pepper.

European brass needs CIP spec reamers, you have a SAAMI spec reamer...simple.

You can order a CIP 22/250 reamer from JGS or PTG, they are different than SAAMI prints...problem solved.

OR, you can continue to beat your head up against the wall. Sloppy factory chambers will often run Lapua or Norma brass, which leads to a lot of confusion.

Also, best to use a micrometer unless you have checked your electronic caliper with gauge blocks, ignore the name on the caliper for this kind of tight work. I have two top name electronic calipers that vary from -.0005-+.0015 over the range of the caliper, this is an expensive lesson learned.
 
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AckleymanII said:
Shinbone, lot of us have been down this road, and the answer is very simple. Do not use Lapua or Norma brass in your chamber, problem solved. Don't try and pick the black specs out of the pepper.
Click to expand...
I hope the solution is as easy as switching brass. I've got some different brass on the way to try.
 
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