2020 NRA F-Class National Championship MATCH DIRECTOR’S BULLETIN #1

[davidjoe]

Jim, did that shooter you saw have a great deal of hair? Was his front rest carefully coated rust brown to indicate how familiar (and well used it was) to him?

You sighted something in Fclass that is highly unusual, but very real. Not a Sasquatch, but the exceedingly talented Brian Bowling’s (sp?) rather unique way of taking his sighters. (No rule requires you look at the target).

In answer to your question, a sand bag is the reason the rifle rest does not and cannot have a positive mechanical return to prior aim point. The rifle moved some.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Jim, did that shooter you saw have a great deal of hair? Was his front rest carefully coated rust brown to indicate how familiar (and well used it was) to him?

You sighted something in Fclass that is highly unusual, but very real. Not a Sasquatch, but the exceedingly talented Brian Bowling’s (sp?) rather unique way of taking his sighters. (No rule requires you look at the target).

In answer to your question, a sand bag is the reason the rifle rest does not and cannot have a positive mechanical return to prior aim point. The rifle moved some.

Nope, he's definitely not referencing Brian. You'd have to shoot more than the occasional local mid-range match in WA to see Brian in action, lol.

 

[J F Johannes]

@J F Johannes you are mistaken in your assessment of Open equipment, how it works, and how it is shot. very much so. I would recommend you actually shoot it before making comments about equipment that I know for a fact you know nothing about.

If you are interested in rectifying your ignorance, try asking the guys you shoot with. I know all of them.

Well gee Jay, that’s what I am trying to do here. Instead of getting your shorts in a bunch, why don’t you explain it to me. I asked it twice here and no one wants to explain it to me. What does the rule in question mean? Or is it just there for doodoo ang giggles. I am not upset about it, just a honest question, it in no way affects me. And neither does the F-TR drama in question here as I don’t use shag carpet. I tried it once and it doesn’t work for me and I could care less what kind of carpet someone uses.

Jim

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

SQUIRREL!!

As a distraction, here is a slo-mo video that was taken a little bit ago showing me driving my F-TR rifle on a JoyPod. The surface on which the bipod rests is something I have been using for a few years; it's a thick rubber with a fabric covering. The whole thing is hard and rests on a high-priced fancy bespoke particle board shelf from a high-end Home Depot store.

Let's see if I can make this work.
https://cnv.nikonimagespace.com/emb...pHvvfBFTfCfCbiA&t=1575237241825?1596227006407

While I try to embed the video, here is a link to it.
http://img.gg/QlHTZ9q

 

[Jetjock1]

Here's something interesting boys, as you know the individual driving this platform down Mid's throat is a person from North Carolina. On page 5, Jetjock1 is speaking for the NRA highpower committee saying this is a done deal. Did you know he was from North Carolina also...... Just saying!!! Starting to smell real fishy in NRAville.......

skibar_tx, I don't know what you are inferring about real fishy in NRA ville but let me tell you I have always had the good of the sport in the forefront of any decision I have made. Stop making me out to be a sinister plotting individual and you should try make some positive contributions to the sport i.
Jetjock

 

[dannyjbiggs]

The phrase "Pertaining to the surface upon which F-TR bipods may rest" starts out this Op. I'm not going to claim that I have all the answers in that area, but I want to show what worked for me over 10 years ago, yes...with the same rules then as now. For some reason, the writer of the F-TR rules set out a restriction on the use of a "table" under both the rear bag and bipod; and then reflected, but it's okay to use carpet under the bipod and rear bag (I would assume that would be under both since the writer is providing a replacement for the "table"?)(but you just want to put it under the bipod... OK.), or some other "flexible matting". What's some other good "flexible matting"? A rifle mat, of course.

So, I acquired an el cheapo ($10-$12 on sale at the time) Midway mat, and modified the front flap. I had an auto upholster glue-and-sew 3/8 inch of flexible rubber pad under the front flap, on which the bipod feet would rest. I would recommend going on up to a least 1/2 inch now. The wear marks on the flap are from a little over 2 years of F-TR competition using the Sinclair elevation-adjusting bipod, and another 3 years in F-O using the Sinclair under a Win .284.

This mat bipod surface is fully compliant with F-TR rules, now and back then; and I can comfortably say that it fully reflects the "spirit of F-TR".

It was challenged one time, and won the challenge, i.e. at the 2008 FCNC at Lodi, for shooting over an oversized "board".

Dan

 

[Scott Harris]

As an F-TR shooter, I can think of no more humiliating punishment than to be forced to shoot with the fancy-pants, blingy equipment toting F-open crowd. Just DQ me for Pete's sake! (and don't tell my wife I posted this )

 

[dannyjbiggs]

As an F-TR shooter, I can think of no more humiliating punishment than to be forced to shoot with the fancy-pants, blingy equipment toting F-open crowd. Just DQ me for Pete's sake! (and don't tell my wife I posted this )

Don't worry too much about it, several of us are thickening up our F-O bipod carpet in hopes of getting to come shoot with you!!

 

[Devin Wiggett]

Easy Scott lol

 

[jkl]

No dog in the fight but I will forward that to the Boss for you Scott. I wouldn't want her to miss that one. And a DQ would give you more time to do some things around the house.

Shoot well in New Mexico to you and the crew that went!

John

 

[Stingray]

I don't agree with it, but it seemingly would. I've never seen a pod pad that doesn't create something resembling tracks.

If we're taking the words strictly at face value, I think this means we'll all be shooting off bare wood or derlyn? Most every 'soft' material I know if creates a track just due to the rifle/bipod weight & narrow ski.

It's hard to say, and I think that's kinda the problem.

Edit: I'm curious what the folks who protested this, or created this new ruling were shooting off of? Do we have examples of 'what right looks like'?

You are right Mike and in addition you can not move the rifle on the Pod Pad once it have been used as a rut is created. So the question is - must the rifle be moveable before the underlayment is used or after firing?
I sure hope this rule doesn't lead to a lot of protests which kind of takes a lot of the fun out of the sport. It's supposed to be fun isn't it?

 

[BP1]

What type of mat should I use or could I simply remove the piping from the edge?

Sir I was just being a smart ass and apologize I for one think it’s gtg..but there are those that will cry about it if you beat them..you can order some material called top gun and whatever thickness of mat you want and glue it to it.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

You are right Mike and in addition you can not move the rifle on the Pod Pad once it have been used as a rut is created. So the question is - must the rifle be moveable before the underlayment is used or after firing?
I sure hope this rule doesn't lead to a lot of protests which kind of takes a lot of the fun out of the sport. It's supposed to be fun isn't it?

Ray,

I too hope protests are kept to a minimum; frankly the whole thing is silly. Short of someone trying to claim their SEB NEO is a bipod, I'll probably keep any gear-related challenges to myself (I suspect the vast majority of others will do the same). It's taken a lot of time and money to come to the realization that F-Class is won on fundamentals, not equipment...let alone the pile and style of carpet.

Realizations aside, I've ordered different types of mouse-pads from Amazon, and will be trying both stall mat and wood for bases; one has to 'innovate' with upcoming change in rules.

Frankly, half the reason I'm pissed is I didn't get to fully appreciate my carpet. I'd only been using it a year and a half? Until you actually try, most don't know how difficult it is to source tiny quantities, let alone find the ideal rule-skirting style/pile etc. You gotta have a carpet 'hook-up' to actually cheat with any success.

I had to endure visiting 4-5 local carpet stores to ask for 'just a couple of squares', and every one of the sales people I spoke to looked at me like I was a legitimate crazy person. Eventually a sales manager at Lowes took pity on me, and cut me about 3-4ft of some overstock carpet they had in the back; but only after he too questioned me about my odd-sized home renovation project, and subsequently looked at me like I was crazy.

All that work tracking down that taboo cheatin' carpet, with very little to show for it.

See ya Sunday!

-Mike

 

[Medium rare]

I think Phil is doing the right thing by trying to get the NRA to clarify the rule. I’m not sure the new way the rule is written is any more clear than it was before and i’m not sure the unintended consequences will be worth it. The base of the issue is that Phil wants the US to have the same rules and interpretations as international rules. Changing the NRA rules to match ICFRA or asking ICFRA to adopt NRA rules and interpretations would be a good way to achieve this goal.


Second issue I see is the omission of previous NRA rulings in the argument. If you omit previous rulings that don’t support your position then the base of your argument is weak.


A few months before 2020 SWN the carpet and skinny feet were called into question at Bayou Rifles. After some discussions about it the match director decided to get a ruling from The NRA. The NRA told him via email that if you can fluff your carpet/pod pad/mat material back to its original condition following the match then you did not provide tracks for the guidance of bipod feet. This would delineate the difference between NRA rules and ICFRA.


One other thing. The front mat that was screen shot from my video and poorly used as evidence of tracks was based on a false assumption. The piece of stall mat my carpet is glued to is flat on the top and bottom. I went to tractor supply to get more of the flat stall mat for the spacers under my mat but they don’t sell that kind anymore. This shouldn’t be a problem for my spacers because the “flat on top and bottom” portion of the rule pertains to the board. Also “(5) Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for variations in height or slope of the firing point.” I would appreciate the common curtesy of asking me privately about my setup instead of making an assumption and posting the misinformation publicly on a forum.

 

[Down South]

How bout we all go back to a Harris style bipod and put a end to this whining and crying about ski bipods and tracking? I'm willing to bet the guys at the top of the leader boards now will still be the same guys at the top with a Harris style bipod. The "magical carpet" ain't the reason why they're winning. I hear the argument that the thick carpet helps to shoot faster by staying on track. Guess what, you still have to wait on the puller. I can shoot my flex bipod, joypod, harris, or whatever and be back on target before the target comes up. It doesn't matter. It comes down to load development and wind reading. Pretty simple.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

If you got rid of the rear bag, and put it in your shoulder. You wouldn't have to worry about boards being to long and connected for a rear rest, or tracking.
Why the Hell did we have to follow the Canadians on their rules? I shoot long range precision rifle. Yes, I shoot a front rest or Bipod, But the rifle is always
in my shoulder. Make it so everybody shoots off a bipod or everyody shoots off a rest! Man up men, We are AMERICANS, and we know how to shoot. Get rid of the rear pussy bags and shoot!

 

[10XSHOOTER]

How bout we all go back to a Harris style bipod and put a end to this whining and crying about ski bipods and tracking? I'm willing to bet the guys at the top of the leader boards now will still be the same guys at the top with a Harris style bipod. The "magical carpet" ain't the reason why they're winning. I hear the argument that the thick carpet helps to shoot faster by staying on track. Guess what, you still have to wait on the puller. I can shoot my flex bipod, joypod, harris, or whatever and be back on target before the target comes up. It doesn't matter. It comes down to load development and wind reading. Pretty simple.

I'll second the Harris bipod!

 

[davidjoe]

Jade, at matches you use a Harris, I will use one, in Open, as I did through 2015. Don’t start before Nationals, though. .

A Harris bipod, the fancy one with the swivel, is the most potent $100 expenditure in all of small arms.

 

[Walt Krafft]

Man up men, We are AMERICANS, and we know how to shoot. Get rid of the pussy bags and supports!

Sling up with irons like real shooters!

 

[skibar_tx]

Sling up with irons like real shooters!

We don’t want to wrinkle our Bahamas shirts! Geez!