2020 NRA F-Class National Championship MATCH DIRECTOR’S BULLETIN #1

[Turbulent Turtle]

... But, the F-Open rules, where Mid is sending such TR rifles by default that do not comply, specifically prohibit tracking bipeds.

Before a decision is made, no violation has been determined. Once a decision has been made to bump the rifle’s division, it is necessarily an F-Open violator.

The safer approach would be not making any decisions until the Rules clarify things. By allowing carpet and such, along with skis in the current rules, the board could not help but track.

No bipeds? Does that mean we all have to crawl from now on? Or maybe swim or fly?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

If you don't use a surface and use the ground then the above does not apply.


Trevor

That settles it. I'm making an e-tool apart of my standard F-T/R kit. Let me get ahead of this proactively...I'm gonna need more prep time.

 

[davidjoe]

No bipeds? Does that mean we all have to crawl from now on? Or maybe swim or fly?

We are belly benchresters after all.

 

[Ron Gorski]

Below is a picture of the setup in question.

As you can clearly see the lower rubber layers are not flat on both sides.

Does the top piece have groves that we can’t see because of the carpet?
Are the bipod feet shaped in such a way that they ride in these grooves?

Having not seen this set up in person I can not answer these questions. I will say this if the top layer of rubber has groves like the others and it just so happened to be turned upward and I was shooting in this match I would absolutely protest it. It simply is not legal under the current NRA rules.

The thickness of the rug nap should be addressed. Like most NRA rules too much is left to the imagination.

 

[Ron Gorski]

So, here is a little reminder about our match director....

No amount of fussing, whining, denigration or snide remarks will deter him. Mid knows the rules and he knows what fair play is.

He was winning national championships when most of us were in diapers and he takes no shit from anyone. He is fair and dedicated to making the sport the best it can be.

Tom Clancy once said, and I quote,..... "If you're gonna kick a bear in the ass, you better have a plan to deal with his teeth."

Good advice when you are dealing with Middleton Tompkins.

Not afraid of old bears.

 

[XTR]

Tell you what, all you guys that don't like it cancel so I can get in.


(Edit)
@Medic505 @dskogman I'm pretty sure that the carpet under Jason's bipod in the first picture (Jason is the only person I know with a purple and black Seb) to keep it from making tracks in the Seb sandbags.

My setup has the OEM wide Seb feet on a carpet (that I've been using for about 9 yrs) much like the one in your second picture. I think mine is fine with the wide feet, but it could be questioned. In any case I'm switching to a piece of carpet much like the nap in the picture of Jason's bipod above. I think the carpet I have for that came from Dollar General one weekend when I forgot some of my kit. Certainly nothing specialized.

 

[DE-F-Open]

... But, the F-Open rules, where Mid is sending such TR rifles by default that do not comply, specifically prohibit tracking bipods.

Before a decision is made on a rifle, no violation has been determined. Once a decision has been made to bump the rifle’s division, it is necessarily an F-Open violator.

Is it better to be “suspect” in TR or a patent violation in Open?

The safer approach would be not making any decisions until the Rules clarify things. By allowing carpet and such, along with skis in the current rules, the board could not help but track.

While I happen to disagree with your interpretation of the rule, you may wish to please remember that if you are an F-Open shooter who believes that the hapless F-T/R shooter who has been assigned to F-Open by operation of the Match Director's Bulletin has an unfair advantage over you, you have the absolute right to file a protest to that effect and let the Protest Committee sort it out.

Let's just hope that with all this COVID-19 uncertainty that we will be allowed to even have a 2020 F-Class nationals. My thanks to Mid & Matt and all the others who are working so hard to ensure that we will.

Hope to see you in Phoenix!

John

 

[Kyle Schultz]

I’m sure glad I transitioned from F-Class to short range group benchrest where nobody games the rule book.

 

[davidjoe]

While I happen to disagree with your interpretation of the rule, you may wish to please remember that if you are an F-Open shooter who believes that the hapless F-T/R shooter who has been assigned to F-Open by operation of the Match Director's Bulletin has an unfair advantage over you, you have the absolute right to file a protest to that effect and let the Protest Committee sort it out.

Let's just hope that with all this COVID-19 uncertainty that we will be allowed to even have a 2020 F-Class nationals. My thanks to Mid & Matt and all the others who are working so hard to ensure that we will.

Hope to see you in Phoenix!

John

I’ll be there, they need to think this through, is all I’m saying. Driving without lights at night.

Open and TR have identical language on tracking bipods. They cut and pasted the rule.

If a board violates TR, it also violates Open. Unlike rifle weight. A different board should be used. The bulletin should just say to bring a back up board, if in doubt, and why. The bulletin should actually say do NOT assume that your set up is legal in Open if it’s not in TR, and remind shooters that the bipod rule is identical in both divisions.

I didn’t write this stuff, I’m only reading it. If the MD wants to have the NRA set aside the current Open rule on Bipods, and then put in such guns, no problem from me, but I think that would need to be specifically addressed.

The Fclass rest rules have been changed an excessive number of times, and another is coming. I happen to own a rest that got nixed in one of those revisions a few years back.

If the new rules don’t address the maximum length or number or “skis” then another change is inevitable later on after this one.

 

[XTR]

...
The Fclass rest rules have been changed an excessive number of times and another is coming.

....

F class doesn't even qualify as Sharp Shooter compared to the XTC crowd when it comes to rules, and heaven help us I hope we never get there.

I think it's funny that the only real F class rules controversy I've seen in the 10 or so yrs I've been shooting has been regarding what goes under an F-TR bipod (E-targets notwithstanding). The last time we did this dance was in '13 I think.

 

[ngb1787]

I’m goin fishin!

 

[swd]

I’ll be there, they need to think this through, is all I’m saying. Driving without lights at night.

Open and TR have identical language on tracking bipods. They cut and pasted the rule.

If a board violates TR, it also violates Open. Unlike rifle weight. A different board should be used. The bulletin should just say to bring a back up board, if in doubt, and why. The bulletin should actually say do NOT assume that your set up is legal in Open if it’s not in TR, and remind shooters that the bipod rule is identical in both divisions.

This is exactly correct. If a rifle doesn't comply with the altered rule then it's a rifle without a class to compete in.

In all fairness changing a rule before a National championship is wrong. If a rifle complies with current NRA rules then it should be allowed. The time to change rules is after all state and national championships.

I shoot Open so I have no skin in the FTR game but fair is fair. If a rifle complied all year it still should at the national championships!

 

[dannyjbiggs]

With one exception, I do not feel that Mid has introduced anything new here that has not been in the rules all along. What is new here, is that an F-TR competitor that violates the "tracking/return to battery" rules is moved into the F-O category in lieu of being DQ'ed for a rules violation. A concept which opens up some opportunities to both the F-TR competitor and the F-O competitor! (The F.O. competitor, maybe???)

In an era when the top 10 percent of the F-TR community is outshooting up to 90 percent of the F-O community...F-TR has really come a long way...at any one match, it offers the opportunity for the sleezy F-TR shooter to maneuver into F-O and win an F-OPEN title by simply violating the "tracking groove rule"!! And not having to invest in the F-O equipment to do it.

Conversely, and I would certainly expect it to happen, that for a sleezy F-O competitor wanting to win an F-TR title; all he would have to do is put chic skate-blade bipod feet on his Joypod, make F-O weight, and pull out a good grade of groove carpet. The intent being to flagrantly violate the F-O rule against bipod grooving, to be caught in the act, and forced into the F-TR competition category! (The directive does not offer insight as to how this infraction would be handled; but...com'on, fair is fair, ain't it??)

Matter of fact, upon reading Mid's bulletin, I was reminded that a few years back, Team Berger (always a national F-O Team) skirmished with the idea of trying an F-TR team venture. Well, now I see our way to it: Violate the "groove rule" with our F-O rigs/skate-blade bipods, and get remanded to the F-TR category.

Dan
Team Berger

 

[Medic505]

So far the biggest whiners have been Open shooters. What are y'all afraid of? I shoot F-TR and I've been shooting off that rug pictured above. After 5 or 6 shots and the feet settle nicely into the 3/4" pile of that carpet, there is no way in hell you can slide that bipod sideways without lifting it up first.

Now you're going to ask, so you knew you were violating the rules, why did you use it? Answer: because lots of others were doing the same thing and nobody had the balls to call us out for it. I applaud Mid and Matt and everyone else involved for calling a spade a spade. I have a slicker piece of carpet that conforms to the rules and that's what I'll be using from now on. My only other option would be to move to the Open ranks and I don't see that happening.

 

[Medic505]

I’m sure glad I transitioned from F-Class to short range group benchrest where nobody games the rule book.

If you are dumb enough to really believe that statement, I'm glad you moved away from F Class too. In the words of David Mann "we don't need any yahoos on this firing point"

 

[davidjoe]

What Mid is getting from us is free idea vetting, months before there is a bigger problem. Rules need tweaking just like loads might.

The F-Open bipod rule is just as much a true rule as the weight and caliber limit. A 30 pound .308 could not default to Open.

Speaking of weight limits, y’all please inform the NRA referee that the Open limit is not 22.0 pounds. It is 10.000000 “kilograms.”

It’s the first to arrive and weigh, who end up cobbling together entire new stock, action and scope combinations at the last minute to “make weight”.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

If you are dumb enough to really believe that statement, I'm glad you moved away from F Class too. In the words of David Mann "we don't need any yahoos on this firing point"

I guess I should have used the sarcasm font for those of you mentally disabled by the Covid virus.

Note: No sarcasm above.

 

[jamesl]

If you are dumb enough to really believe that statement, I'm glad you moved away from F Class too. In the words of David Mann "we don't need any yahoos on this firing point"

Out of all the David Mann quotes this was the best you had Dean?

 

[Medic505]

Out of all the David Mann quotes this was the best you had Dean?

That was the only PG rated one.

 

[D-4297]

I had to laugh at the remarks regarding the supposed "time" issue , of three months before a Natl. competition . The majority of the objections on "time" are coming from people who could build a brand new rifle , develop a load , and purchase a new Phx. or Duplin in a couple of weeks. And as was suggested by someone , create a "Back-up" front board that meets the "adjusted" / "clarified" , criteria within a few hours . Don't understand why people don't consult the Rules , before doing something , and then get their panties in a twist when told what their doing doesn't meet the rules . "But that's the way I've been doin it for five years", doesn't make it acceptable now . Somebody need a "Whaaaaa-bul-ance" ?