2012 Camp Perry Team Matches Prone, F-Class Open, FT/R

[wolfman]

F class competitor #5093 here. seems higher than the 48 supposedly allowed, who knows.
I did see the F America's Match requires .308 Win and bullets 156gr or less. Did not expect the bullet weight limit. Eight man teams and at least 4 have to be F tr shooters but all must use .308 Win. Is the way I read the rules. Only one Eight man team per country or club.

This doesn't make any sense to me- Half the US F/Tr team was shooting 185 or heavier at the last America match. I know at least half of the Canadian team shoots 185's...I really don't want to have to go back to my old 155.5 load. Weird.

 

[XTR]

In response to an E-mail I sent requesting clarification:

The America Match will be fired with a .308 Winchester caliber with a maximum bullet weight of 156 grains, per the online program.


Dennis L. Willing, Director
NRA Competitive Shooting Division

 

[XTR]

The NRA really makes this difficult to say the least. If the spent as much time/money on competition as they do on filling my mailbox it would either be way better or impossible to figure out, one of the two.

Camp Perry Program

Look on Page 40 of the program, it states that the America Match will be shot with 308Win and bullets 156gn or less.

 

[scaxeman]

The NRA really makes this difficult to say the least. If the spent as much time/money on competition as they do on filling my mailbox it would either be way better or impossible to figure out, one of the two.

Camp Perry Program

Look on Page 40 of the program, it states that the America Match will be shot with 308Win and bullets 156gn or less.

Yeah, if you look at Addendum II, it's spelled out even more clearly. The way it's written, even F-Open would have to run 155 grain bullets. Clearly this is an error/oversight, the F-Class portion of the match program needs to be fixed. I don't think anyone on either the Canadian or the US Team really expects that the F-Class portion of the match will be shot under Palma rules.

Darrell

 

[FroggyOne2]

You'all just wait and chill, I just got off the phone with Dennis Willin and he agrees that the thing about F-Open is unclear. Also, he only has a abbreviated out line of the requirements for the America's Match before and he states it is too sketchy. He as sent an Emial to Dennis F. Team. Captain of the US Palma Team for the complete rules and program for the match. It will be up to Dennis F. To make the annoucement for the program of the America's Match. Mr. Willing stated that they are even sure on the final program for the match and that an official announcement will be made in the next couple of days. So stand by to stand by till then. I asked Mr. Willing if he would ask Dennis F. Make the official announcement also here on this site and also on the US Palma Tean Long Range forum as well. Since I am one of the two Fullbore Directors at our club, I needed some concrete info and can't seem as of right now get anything solid.

 

[Steve Blair]

Yeah, if you look at Addendum II, it's spelled out even more clearly. The way it's written, even F-Open would have to run 155 grain bullets.

[br]
Darrell,
This sounds like a great opportunity for 6mm and 6.5mm shooters.

 

[XTR]

If you start getting into the match schedule the dates are a little confusing too:

Match 702 / 706 (open/TR) are shown on Saturday Aug 11
Match 703 / 707 (open/TR) are shown on Sunday, Aug 12

But

Match 704/708 is shown as Saturday Aug 13, I'm assuming that to be Monday, as the Wimbledon Cup match that it is to be held concurrent with is on Monday.

 

[scaxeman]

It will be up to Dennis F. To make the annoucement for the program of the America's Match.

This is fine if you're a Palma shooter. Nothing against Dennis, but he has nothing to do with the F-Class portion of the match; aside from being shot at the same time, they're completely separate matches. Separate awards, separate rules, etc. The US Team Captain for F-Class this year is Bryan Otey.

Darrell

 

[FroggyOne2]

Wade,

You have never been to Perry, I know it seems that schedule seems out of line, but they don't go exactly by the numbers in order, so don't fret that, just make sure you turn in the correct score card.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Darrell,

According to Mr. Willing, the Palma Team Captain has everything to do with it as to the America's Match, when I posted that info and quite hurridly I might add, I had just then gotten off the phone with Mr. Willing.

 

[scaxeman]

According to Mr. Willing, the Palma Team Captain has everything to do with it as to the America's Match.

Froggy,

I Captained the US F-Class Team to the last America's Match in Ottawa, 2010. I assure you, there was virtually no contact whatsoever between the F-Class and the Palma sides of the Americas Match. Between the US, Canada, and South Africa (the F-Class Captains, that would actually be competing under the rules) , we had the rule set agreed to 9+ months in advance of the match. This shouldn't really be up to anyone's discretion, the rules for F-Class (both NRA and ICFRA) are quite clear. What's next, shooting F-Open rifles from a sling?

Best,

Darrell

 

[FroggyOne2]

I am telling you what Mr. Willing stated to me over the phone and I am of understanding that this is the position that the NRA Competitions Office is going to take. Mr. Willing is waiting to hear back from Dennis over on the Palma Team. That is all I know.

 

[scaxeman]

That is all I know.

No worries... It'll get sorted out!

Best,

Darrell

 

[FroggyOne2]

Darrell,

Just a thought, might want to holler at Dennis and see what is up, for I get the feeling that, no one seems to know what the heck is going on!

Frog

 

[FroggyOne2]

Darrell,

I agree no worries! Just truing to help, Mr. Willing asked me to post what we had talked about. The main thing he states is that there will be an official annoucement here in a couple of days and should have a downloadable pdf file to see what the program is really going to be for the America's Match. If you remember, when Emil Praslick spoke about this match last year after the Worlds down under, it was the impression that just the international teams would have to abide by the Intertantional rules and the non-international teams would be under NRA rules. Two seperate matches. The America's Match and the what was it called "Camp Perry International or Invitational or some thing like that" match. Then there is all of the other confusion that is going on. Just like H.Q Moody is no longer in charge of the Nationals, it is indeed someone else in charge and Mr. Willing informed me that they will reinstate the Law Enforcement catagory by Match Directors Bulletin to the Long Range championships, H.Q. had removed it.

Also, Camp Perry packs will only be sent out to those that request them and registered last year by mail only.

They are going to change the last day of registration for long range to a couple of days before the Long Range Championships, when Mr Willing seen that the 3rd of August was the last day, he felt that was too soon and should be changed to be closer for the long range phase.

And with all that going on I still forgot to ask them about why my fifth national record has not been certified yet, it takes them way too dang long to post up the new records, the last one I shot was back in October of last year.

 

[scaxeman]

Emil Praslick spoke about this match last year after the Worlds down under, it was the impression that just the international teams would have to abide by the Intertantional rules and the non-international teams would be under NRA rules.

True enough. The International rules (ICFRA Rules) have a section regarding F-Class. There are *very* few differences between our NRA F-Class rules and the International ICFRA rules. One distinct point that they have in common is that there is no bullet weight limit for F-T/R (or F-Open, for that matter!).

Thanks,

Darrell

(PM Sent, BTW)

 

[XTR]

Wade,

You have never been to Perry, I know it seems that schedule seems out of line, but they don't go exactly by the numbers in order, so don't fret that, just make sure you turn in the correct score card.

Naa, the confusing part is that Saturday is the 11th and Monday is the 13th, so when do you show up to shoot a match scheduled on Saturday the 13th?

 

[FroggyOne2]

Yeah well, the official bulletin has not been printed yet, the order was just made and should be ready by next week.

 

[proneshooter]

Will there be 4 or 8 competitors to the team match, which will be running concurrently with the Americas Match?
If so please explain the team format? If not will there be both FT/R, F-Open & Prone, 4 man teams, or just prone (Fullbore with no bullet or trigger weight)? Do you have pre-register a team prior to arriving at Camp Perry?

What matches will the FT/R & F-Open be excluded from during the Long Range Matches at Camp Perry?
Is there only 48 slots open for F-Class?

The reason I am asking there has been a lot of confusion, and misinformation floating around and I am receiving emails daily from our local club members and competitors. I have also received a lot of emails and last weekend at our regional there were are a lot of F-Class competitors that have already signed up, I can only imagine how many other F-Class shooters from other areas of the country have signed up, I haven’t heard of anyone yet that has been refused entry signing up for F-Class? It would be nice to know if we needed to have a F-Class team ready for Perry.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[NateG]

And with all that going on I still forgot to ask them about why my fifth national record has not been certified yet, it takes them way too dang long to post up the new records, the last one I shot was back in October of last year.

Froggy,

I've been talking to the NRA folks about a couple records from about the same time. Want me to ask about yours, too? (PM me the details if you'd like.) I'll be calling back in a couple days.