200.20x. Why do you use them?

[Ned Ludd]

I like the 20x.
dave

Nice - congrats! Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried the 215s out of the RSAUM? If so, how did they compare with the 200.20X? The 200.20X is essentially a slightly shortened version of the 200 Hybrid bearing surface, with the nose and boattail of the 215. I'm curious as to how the 200.20Xs and 215s might compare with a little more horsepower behind them than can be obtained with a .308 Win case. Thanks.

 

[dave7mm]

Thank you.
In the SAUM i've spent most of my time, since 2011, with the 210g LRBT.
Now out of production.
Looking about for a replacement, I have shot both 200g hybrids and the 20x.
Seemed to have better luck with the 20x.
I ran the 210 LRBTs at 2800fps and did very well with them.
The 20x runs about 2820 with pretty much the same load.
I have a box of the 215g Hybrids but have yet to get them on the range.
Now with the new pointed 208g coming out.
I think its time for a shoot off.
The one that shoots the best at yardage get the nod..

dave

 

[D-4297]

I've shot the 200.20x in F-TR and had reasonable results with it . It is a excellent bullet for windy conditions at both 600 and 1,000 out of my rifle . However ; I've had better success with the 200 Hybrid , scoring-wise at both distances . I am looking forward to some tests with the new 208 , for obvious reasons . My thought on any of these bullets is to feed it what it likes , and shoots best . Whether it is the "New" flavor of the month , or not .

 

[Elwood]

This is quite interesting, this is the first thread that I have read where several people have said the 200.20x isn't their preferred FTR bullet. Everything I have read up until now extols the virtues of the 200.20x and a lot of that with photographic evidence ( Shot Marker )

From what I can gather most shooters in the UK have largely given up on them due to having to many shots lost to elevation, some had even worn out barrels trying to find the grail, of course the ridiculous price of the 200.20x may have contributed to people moving away from them.
I'm trying to work out what everyone is doing that we're not in the UK, the only thing that the US has that we don't is Varget, but we have ample supplies of N140 and N150.

I'm reasonably sure in the early days people were trying to push them too fast, most have now backed off to the known node of 2640-2700fps, even at those speeds they trump anything else that is viable to shoot in FTR. So is this a case of you know you may drop a point due to elevation and gain a few points on the wind with the 200.20x?

 

[XTR]

If you are looking for on target results most of the the top US F-TR shooters run the 20x. I think there are two maybe three members on the US FTR team running the 200H. (and I'm pretty sure one of those is because he has 1000s of the 200H)

Personally, I shot the 20x to:

• the 2nd highest V count in the Rutland Cup in the 2017 worlds, (#1 was running the 200H)
  
• the highest X count in the 2018 FCNC Mid range
  
• the second highest X count in the 2020 SWN in PHX
  
• tied with Omar on team TX for the highest X count in the 2020SWN team match
  
• I know Jade was running them, with the same load I'm running, when he won the FCNC and had the highest X-count in the 2019.
  
• I've since retired the barrel I used in Raton last yr but it shot the 6th highest X count in the 2019 FCNC.

There are those who may get better results from the 200H in testing, but on the targets there is nothing wrong with the 200.20x. That or maybe it's just my ABC barrels, who knows.

 

[Ned Ludd]

...There are those who may get better results from the 200H in testing, but on the targets there is nothing wrong with the 200.20x. That or maybe it's just my ABC barrels, who knows.

It's all three...the 200.20Xs, your ABC barrels, and the fellow pointing the gun.

 

[dcali]

The 200 20x is just a good bullet for its intended use. F Class isn’t very forgiving if you have accuracy issues or if the BC is too low. But you generally trade one for the other. The 20x has a very good BC but not *too good*, and works well out of a .308. The higher BC bullets either give up velocity because they’re heavier, or they’re so long that they get finicky.

 

[markgrabowski]

Damon, what comparisons could you share about your bullet vs. Others mentioned here? (In an FTR application)

 

[markgrabowski]

This is quite interesting, this is the first thread that I have read where several people have said the 200.20x isn't their preferred FTR bullet. Everything I have read up until now extols the virtues of the 200.20x and a lot of that with photographic evidence ( Shot Marker )

From what I can gather most shooters in the UK have largely given up on them due to having to many shots lost to elevation, some had even worn out barrels trying to find the grail, of course the ridiculous price of the 200.20x may have contributed to people moving away from them.
I'm trying to work out what everyone is doing that we're not in the UK, the only thing that the US has that we don't is Varget, but we have ample supplies of N140 and N150.

I'm reasonably sure in the early days people were trying to push them too fast, most have now backed off to the known node of 2640-2700fps, even at those speeds they trump anything else that is viable to shoot in FTR. So is this a case of you know you may drop a point due to elevation and gain a few points on the wind with the 200.20x?

Elwood, given the cost issues with Berger’s over that side of the pond, what bullets are FTR folks using?

 

[Elwood]

Elwood, given the cost issues with Berger’s over that side of the pond, what bullets are FTR folks using?

At club level and especially at short range a lot of us are still using the remarkably accurate 155.5 FB, above club level I would imagine most are using the 200 gr Hybrid or 200 gr Sierra's (I'm actually a F Open shooter but occasionally I do like to shoot FTR)

Berger 200.20x are £85 per 100 at the current exchange rate you would be paying $110 in the US.

 

[Laurie]

There are more than a few very competent UK competitors who straddle club and national levels who've gone back to the 185gn Juggernaut too (or use both it and the 155.5 depending on distance and weather forecast).

When I shot F/TR, I found the 155.5gn FB hard to better except in really rough conditions and that's probably what I'd still use most of the time if I'd stayed in this game.

 

[LVLAaron]

There are more than a few very competent UK competitors who straddle club and national levels who've gone back to the 185gn Juggernaut too (or use both it and the 155.5 depending on distance and weather forecast).

When I shot F/TR, I found the 155.5gn FB hard to better except in really rough conditions and that's probably what I'd still use most of the time if I'd stayed in this game.

What velocity do you shoot for with the 155s?

 

[Laurie]

What velocity do you shoot for with the 155s?

My usual MV with the 155.5 was 3,050 fps in UK temperatures from IMR-8208XBR in small primer brass and from a 32-inch Broughton. That rose to a straight 3,100 fps at Raton in August '13 when in the 90s, but the load didn't need adjusting to my surprise and that's what I used there for the next 10 days. The last time I checked MVs with the barrel round-count getting on for 2,800, that had dropped to 3,027 (back in our temperatures) due to throat erosion.

These are relatively low MVs compared to what many achieve here - a node around 3,150 fps used to be very popular and with some of the 'hot' Nitrochemie manufactured ('Reload Swiss') powders we have here, yet higher velocities were used by some. I'm not sure what our top F/TR shooters are doing these days, but suspect that there has been some backing off from the hottest loads / highest MVs down to the 3,100 fps level or a little above.

My 'windy days' load was the 168 Hybrid at a shade under 3,000 fps using Reload Swiss RS52 in small primer brass. (For RS52 think of the same manufacturer/technology Alliant Re17 but with a VarGet to Re15 burning speed.) It shot very well indeed and won me a few medals, but I always preferred using the 155.5 Berger if I thought I could get away with it.

 

[Rick300]

If your barrel is barrel is throated for the 185's will the 200.20x work ok?

 

[markgrabowski]

I believe most folks use a 10 twist with these 20x, yes?

 

[Papa Charlie]

I have also talked with some that are using a 9.5 twist. I am getting close to needing a replacement barrel. The one I have is a Benchmark 10 twist 30 inch. But has a short FB that prevents me from using the 200.20X efficiently. The new one will have a 180 FB. I haven't decided on the twist yet. But will be either 10 or 9.5.

 

[LVLAaron]

I believe most folks use a 10 twist with these 20x, yes?

I'd agree with that. 1:10 works great with the 185, 200, and 200.20

 

[Ned Ludd]

I believe most folks use a 10 twist with these 20x, yes?

An 11-twist also works very well, even though you're giving up a small amount of the intrinsic BC in theory. According to Berger's Twist Rate Calculator, a 10.5-twist is the minimum necessary to generate an Sg of 1.5. So most F-TR shooters will go with the 10-twist because that's what will typically be available without having to make a custom order with long lead time direct from the barrel manufacturer.

 

[Michael C]

What reamer are you guys using for a FTR and 200-20x? Also considering just using the 185’s. I am going to turn one of my palma rifles into a dedicated FTR shooter and will be ordering a barrel soon. Some say to just use the same Obermeyer chamber throated to 180. But is there a better reamer?

 

[J F Johannes]

I use this reamer. Works for both the 185 jugg and the 20x bullets.

Jim