20 PPC or 20 BR
- Thread starter GlennL
- Start date
Glenn
Have you looked over on www.saubier.com ? they have a lot .20 cal info over there, I remember reading something on there about .20 br.
Kev
Have you looked over on www.saubier.com ? they have a lot .20 cal info over there, I remember reading something on there about .20 br.
Kev
SongdogHunter
Gold $$ Contributor
the PPC is much more efficient than teh BR. I'd determine what weight bullet you wish to shoot first than pick teh case based on it.
32 grain: 20 VT
40 grain: 20 PPC
50 grain: 20 BR
I have them all and like the 20 PPC the most.
SDH
32 grain: 20 VT
40 grain: 20 PPC
50 grain: 20 BR
I have them all and like the 20 PPC the most.
SDH
Tommie and SDH said it well. It depends on what your goals are.
With the 20 PPC it is easy to neck down Norma 22PPC brass, no fireforming.
With 20BR, neck down the 6mmBR brass.
I think many make the choice based on which bolt-face they have.
When starting by getting a new action, and bolt face is no issue, some make the choice based on what future cartridges they'd like to use with the action.
With the 20 PPC it is easy to neck down Norma 22PPC brass, no fireforming.
With 20BR, neck down the 6mmBR brass.
I think many make the choice based on which bolt-face they have.
When starting by getting a new action, and bolt face is no issue, some make the choice based on what future cartridges they'd like to use with the action.
Glenn L,
Scanning through the small stuff forum, I saw your post about a possible PPC-based 20 cal. I'm currently building a short 20 PPC. I got Dave Kiff to grind a 20 PPC reamer 0.150" short with a 0.224 neck, retaining the 30 degree shoulder. Hopefully this will result in plenty of velocity for longrange varminting, and maintain benchrest level accuracy without the overbore drawbacks of the full PPC case in a 20 cal application. Max Combs had excellent results with a PPC case shortened by .175" - called the 20 PUP as reported in Todd Kindler's Terrific Twenties. Both cases require a lot of work moving the shoulder back. All this if you subscribe to the belief that the PPC case is too overbore for 22 and 20 cal applications,per Dan Dowling's 22 Waldog.) There is also a 20 cal version of the otherwise unaltered 220 russian case that some folks have used with good success. I believe Walt Berger has used this case in BR competition with good results. Search on Todd Kindler or Dave Kiff... both are extraordinary helpful.
Hope this helps
JeffsVice
Scanning through the small stuff forum, I saw your post about a possible PPC-based 20 cal. I'm currently building a short 20 PPC. I got Dave Kiff to grind a 20 PPC reamer 0.150" short with a 0.224 neck, retaining the 30 degree shoulder. Hopefully this will result in plenty of velocity for longrange varminting, and maintain benchrest level accuracy without the overbore drawbacks of the full PPC case in a 20 cal application. Max Combs had excellent results with a PPC case shortened by .175" - called the 20 PUP as reported in Todd Kindler's Terrific Twenties. Both cases require a lot of work moving the shoulder back. All this if you subscribe to the belief that the PPC case is too overbore for 22 and 20 cal applications,per Dan Dowling's 22 Waldog.) There is also a 20 cal version of the otherwise unaltered 220 russian case that some folks have used with good success. I believe Walt Berger has used this case in BR competition with good results. Search on Todd Kindler or Dave Kiff... both are extraordinary helpful.
Hope this helps
JeffsVice
CajunBlake
Silver $$ Contributor
i dicked around for over a year trying to decide on which 20PPC I wanted to build.... standard version, -.125" short, or -.150" short. I mainly shoot live varmints as every rifle I shoot is custom built. The .125" or .150" short 20 PPC holds about 24 grs +/- of N133 when shooting a 40 gr Berger. Just about perfect for this case. Velocity should be in the 3800 to 4100 fps range.
I abandoned my project after reading about the 20 Beggs. Gene Beggs took the 220 Russian case, necked it down to 20 caliber, and retained the same shoulder angle/radius as on the PPC case. The 220 Russian holds the same amount of powder as a 22PPC -.100" short,roughly 25 - 26 grs of N133).
Basically NO case forming, just neck from .22 to .20, drop your powder, load a bullet and shoot. It's that simple. Hornady made the custom bushing FL/NS die which Gene sells for $105.00 delivered. I will change bushings as needed for neck/bullet tension. I already have a Wilson 20PPC BS die which will work fine for the 20 Beggs.
My HART 1:12" barrel was just chambered last week by Don Geraci as I'll be picking it up in the next 2 weeks. Barrel is threaded for a Kelbly action so it will fit on any of my custom actions .... Panda, Kodiak, and/or Grizzly II. #7 LV contour finished at 24" as rifle will weigh around 11.5 lbs scoped. Mainly used to shoot live varmints off the bench and shoot paper.
A good friend,Ken Ekstrand) over near San Antonio already has a 20 Beggs. Ken shared some of his loading data with me as I can't wait to shoot my first coyote, jackrabbit, or crow.
26 grs N133 with a 35 gr Berger = 4350 fps.
25.2 grs of N133 with a 40 gr Berger = 4200 + fps.
Lapua brass and Vitavhouri powders = scary accurate.
pictured L to R : 17 Fireball, 17 Little Nasty,PPC -.180" short), 20 Beggs, 22 Beggs, and 220 Russian.
email or PM me with any questions
I abandoned my project after reading about the 20 Beggs. Gene Beggs took the 220 Russian case, necked it down to 20 caliber, and retained the same shoulder angle/radius as on the PPC case. The 220 Russian holds the same amount of powder as a 22PPC -.100" short,roughly 25 - 26 grs of N133).
Basically NO case forming, just neck from .22 to .20, drop your powder, load a bullet and shoot. It's that simple. Hornady made the custom bushing FL/NS die which Gene sells for $105.00 delivered. I will change bushings as needed for neck/bullet tension. I already have a Wilson 20PPC BS die which will work fine for the 20 Beggs.
My HART 1:12" barrel was just chambered last week by Don Geraci as I'll be picking it up in the next 2 weeks. Barrel is threaded for a Kelbly action so it will fit on any of my custom actions .... Panda, Kodiak, and/or Grizzly II. #7 LV contour finished at 24" as rifle will weigh around 11.5 lbs scoped. Mainly used to shoot live varmints off the bench and shoot paper.
A good friend,Ken Ekstrand) over near San Antonio already has a 20 Beggs. Ken shared some of his loading data with me as I can't wait to shoot my first coyote, jackrabbit, or crow.
26 grs N133 with a 35 gr Berger = 4350 fps.
25.2 grs of N133 with a 40 gr Berger = 4200 + fps.
Lapua brass and Vitavhouri powders = scary accurate.
pictured L to R : 17 Fireball, 17 Little Nasty,PPC -.180" short), 20 Beggs, 22 Beggs, and 220 Russian.
email or PM me with any questions
Cajun Blake - the 20 beggs looks like a sweet deal. I read about the 22 and 6 Beggs rounds over on Benchrest Central. I have a lot more work forming, turning etc, but what the heck, just a few more hours at the reloading bench - there's worse places to be. I really like the Little Nasty you show at the bottom... I've enjoyed a 17 Mach IV for many years but haven't every considered any other 17 cal wildcats. Something to put on the back burner.
shoot often and shoot well.
shoot often and shoot well.
CajunBlake
Silver $$ Contributor
Jeffs,
thx for the compliments on the 17 LN. I designed it about 5 yrs ago with the help of Blaine Eddy. Iv'e shared these pics before on other forums - here is the kind of accuracy the LN is capable of.
It was designed to outperform the 17 Remington for coyote hunting while using less powder and being more accurate.
Here is a 16 lb. groundhog shot by my friend Dave Kessler in Ohio. This mule would not fit in a 5 gallon plastic bucket. The 17 LN anchored this hog from 365 yds with one-shot. 25 gr Beger at 4050 fps.
thx for the compliments on the 17 LN. I designed it about 5 yrs ago with the help of Blaine Eddy. Iv'e shared these pics before on other forums - here is the kind of accuracy the LN is capable of.
It was designed to outperform the 17 Remington for coyote hunting while using less powder and being more accurate.
Here is a 16 lb. groundhog shot by my friend Dave Kessler in Ohio. This mule would not fit in a 5 gallon plastic bucket. The 17 LN anchored this hog from 365 yds with one-shot. 25 gr Beger at 4050 fps.
CajunBlake
Silver $$ Contributor
ogre,
if you call Dave Kiff at PTG, he will have a reamer print for you to check out.
Dave Kiff is very familiar with the Beggs cases since he has made many reamers for those shooting the 22 and 6mm Beggs.
I borrowed a friend's reamer which has a .231" neck . I lightly neck turn to clean up Lapua brass, as necks mic .0125". Seated bullet mics .229" for .002" clearance.
I went with a HART 1:12" LV # 7 to be finished at 24". Will be threaded onto my Stolle Kodiak action, Kelbly varminter stock.
will post pics in a week when i pick up the rifle from gunsmith.,chambering already done)
if you call Dave Kiff at PTG, he will have a reamer print for you to check out.
Dave Kiff is very familiar with the Beggs cases since he has made many reamers for those shooting the 22 and 6mm Beggs.
I borrowed a friend's reamer which has a .231" neck . I lightly neck turn to clean up Lapua brass, as necks mic .0125". Seated bullet mics .229" for .002" clearance.
I went with a HART 1:12" LV # 7 to be finished at 24". Will be threaded onto my Stolle Kodiak action, Kelbly varminter stock.
will post pics in a week when i pick up the rifle from gunsmith.,chambering already done)
Glen,
Without knowing the application you intend it's hard to give really good advice. So I'll tell you what I would do.
Being a PD shooter, I'd go for the cartridge which provides the best exterior ballistics. In other words: which will shoot the flattest and the buck wind. When it's all said and done, the .224 doesn't stand a chance against the .204 bullet. I've plugged just about every possible combination into my ballistic calculator program and the 20's win every time.
Since you already own a .204 Ruger I'd suggest a .20BR in a 1-9" twist and run 50 grainers. Berger and Gunhaus,whose posted BC numbers are VERY conservative) make some lovely 50 grain bullets that'll embarrass any .224 pill. By the time a .224 bullet gets long enough to compare with a heavy .204 the cartridge can't push the bullet fast enough to enjoy any ballistic advantage.
Some people will tell you that the BR case is over bore for the 20, but expansion ratio calculations prove otherwise. While a 20BR is certainly a hotrod, it's expansion ratio is better than a 22-250 while delivering measurably superior exterior ballistics.
Tom
Without knowing the application you intend it's hard to give really good advice. So I'll tell you what I would do.
Being a PD shooter, I'd go for the cartridge which provides the best exterior ballistics. In other words: which will shoot the flattest and the buck wind. When it's all said and done, the .224 doesn't stand a chance against the .204 bullet. I've plugged just about every possible combination into my ballistic calculator program and the 20's win every time.
Since you already own a .204 Ruger I'd suggest a .20BR in a 1-9" twist and run 50 grainers. Berger and Gunhaus,whose posted BC numbers are VERY conservative) make some lovely 50 grain bullets that'll embarrass any .224 pill. By the time a .224 bullet gets long enough to compare with a heavy .204 the cartridge can't push the bullet fast enough to enjoy any ballistic advantage.
Some people will tell you that the BR case is over bore for the 20, but expansion ratio calculations prove otherwise. While a 20BR is certainly a hotrod, it's expansion ratio is better than a 22-250 while delivering measurably superior exterior ballistics.
Tom
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