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20 caliber

How would a 22 cal bullet say (75gr to 88 gr) compare to the Berger 55gr?

.22cal 75gr ELDM at 3100fps
2024-01-24 07.53.46.jpg

.20cal 55gr Berger at 3500fps
2024-01-24 07.55.50.jpg

What the .20cal picks up in drop, it loses in the wind, and that's where it counts. The above figures are based on a 10mph 9:00 wind. Though they are pretty close to each other in the typical operating ranges. The correct choice depends on some very specific answers to very specific questions about your use case.

If I could only have one BRA... it would be a 22 BRA. However, I can have more, so I have .20's, 22's, 6's... and stock SAC sizers for all of them with custom one piece expander decappers and a gaggle of bushings.

SAC sizers start at $425. Custom inline seaters start at $300.

... and we do not take responsibility for your chamber dimensions if you didn't get the barrel here.


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If your gonna bring in wind to thr argument then you might as well GO 6BRA.
The 20 BRA is a laser will wind effect it more that bigger bullets sure it will are you good enough to shoot the difference?
Theres a reason people who shoot for pure accuracy either go Custom, Berger and a few Sierra bullets
 
Gabe, what you mean?
How fast can you run a 22cal 87gr / 75 gr bullet from a 22br case??
Vs a 20BR w/ 55gr @ 3600fps ???

Rock vs laser

You know NBRSA 100/200yd matches have been won w/ 20cal’s
Most smaller in case capacity , almost 1/2 of the BR case or less…


The little search function is your friend…
Greg @ primial rights has videos
 
If your gonna bring in wind to thr argument then you might as well GO 6BRA.
The 20 BRA is a laser will wind effect it more that bigger bullets sure it will are you good enough to shoot the difference?
Theres a reason people who shoot for pure accuracy either go Custom, Berger and a few Sierra bullets
Academically, you can see above which one is better. In practicality, the effectis in the wind are more impactful out in the world. The use case, as in what you're trying to accomplish with the bullet on the other end should be the primary consideration.

When making cartridge choices, I find it is best to consider all elements of performance and weigh them against the intended use. Real world experience goes a long way there to helping color in the blank spaces and properly allow the end user to set their expectations correctly before spending the money.

Most shooters I've had on the firing line here during various training events could definitely shoot the difference between 2 tenths of a mil. If you can't produce shots inside a tenth, and call wind to 1mph minimum, then a prairie dog at 600yds becomes a very low probability shot.

600yds at a 10mph 9:00 wind with the above 55berger at 3500, a -1/+1 mph wind (so 9mph to 11mph) will put you at 2 tenths of a mil wide mechanical dispersion. That's roughly 4" wide at 600. Depending on the orientation of the pdog, that's barely on the animal at the edges of the call, provided all else in the shot is executed flawlessly.

Add in two tenths of a mil of aerodynamic jump if the wind goes from 1:00 to 11:00, and you better have that firing solution dead on if you expect a hit.

The fact is if you run the numbers on the above scenario, the .20, .22, and 6 BRA are all running the same two tenths of a mil dispersion in a 2mph delta at 600yds. So, wind is wind, and the velocity you pick up with the smaller is negated by the ballistic coefficient loss.

The only practical way to solve the problem of wind is to move up in cartridge size. Higher BC bullets travelling at equal velocities, but even then it can be a moot point, as you need to go VERY big in order for it to matter. In the above scenario, I need to go to something like my 7 Norma Mag Improved pushing a 195 EOL at 3100fps before I see the dispersion in the wind drop to 1 tenth of a mil. Even my 6 PRC Primal pushing a 110 ATIP at 3300fps is still two tenths of a mil wide. The wind really sucks, and I fantasize about shooting pdogs on the moon. :D

However, and this is the big caveat... We rarely see a 2mph delta in the wind in the windy regions of this country. 6-10mph is much more frequent delta between the peak and valley. The average person lacks the wind reading ability to perform the above example. So what we see is that a shooter will typically have significantly more hits with a 22cal than 20, and this trend will continue all the way up until cartridge size and recoil presents a rifle driving/handling problem that the user isn't skilled enough to overcome. At a point, they'll perform better with lesser cartridges, because they can't drive the heavier recoil properly.

There's no wrong answer when it comes to BRA's. They are all fun and they are all good. Some better than others at certain jobs. As you can see above from the provided drop data... the .22BRA hangs right with the .20BRA. What it lacks in speed, it picks up in BC. The same is true of the 6mm. I've taken a lot of shooters out to the pdog towns over the years. They hands down gravitate toward the 22BRA. More hits, just more hits on average, if the shooting is past 300yds.

What you're hitting, is the only real question. If its a pdog, target, or coyote, any will do. Bigger jobs need more bullet if you expect success.


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If wind is everything the 30 cals would dominate the line at 600 and 1,000 thats just not the case, only one I could recall is 30BR at short range.
 
.22cal 75gr ELDM at 3100fps
View attachment 1516161

.20cal 55gr Berger at 3500fps
View attachment 1516163

What the .20cal picks up in drop, it loses in the wind, and that's where it counts. The above figures are based on a 10mph 9:00 wind. Though they are pretty close to each other in the typical operating ranges. The correct choice depends on some very specific answers to very specific questions about your use case.

If I could only have one BRA... it would be a 22 BRA. However, I can have more, so I have .20's, 22's, 6's... and stock SAC sizers for all of them with custom one piece expander decappers and a gaggle of bushings.

SAC sizers start at $425. Custom inline seaters start at $300.

... and we do not take responsibility for your chamber dimensions if you didn't get the barrel here.


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3500 FPS sounds a bit conservative for the 20 BR.
 
Not if you like your brass to last more than 5 firings.

I'm getting 30+ firings at that speed.

My numbers are not referencing the .20BR, but rather the .20BRA.


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Actually I agree with you but was going off reports from 20 BR shooters who state they’re hitting 3700+ with no issues. I’m shooting a 20 BRX and 3700+ is pretty easy but of course it has a larger boiler room than a straight BR or BRA
 
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Some bullets exhibit wide tune windows and remarkable consistency that allows them to perform better than ballistic calculations seem to predict. I think a good example of this is the 30 cal 185 Juggernaut. I have found the 55 Berger to be a remarkably capable bullet that performs above what it’s relatively low BC would lead you to believe. My 20 Vartarg runs them around 3050fps and it holds together well to 600 yards, frequently flirting with 1” groups at that distance:


I don’t want to mislead. It’s challenging to shoot small at distance with it, but it doesn’t feel like a random number generator, like many high BC “match” bullets that don’t display the same reliable performance in changing conditions.
 
Actually I agree with you but was going off reports from 20 BR shooters who state they’re hitting 3700+ with no issues. I’m shooting a 20 BRX and 3700+ is pretty easy but of course it has a larger boiler room than a straight BR or BRA
I think those guys that are hitting that legitimately with no pressure and lots of firings on their brass are running significantly longer barrels. All I know is that if I sell a rifle system to someone with a 26" barrel and tell them to expect 3,700fps from their 20BRA... my reputation would suffer badly if they are as demanding as I am.

We all seem to have different definitions of what "without issue" means. I expect my bolt to run so well that I can put 3 rounds in the air at once, if I want to. Effortless. You can see what I'm talking about at 24:30 of my previously posted video. I'd perhaps like to see a video with chronograph on screen of 3750fps from a 26" 20BRA barrel with 55's for a string of 10-15rnds. I'd be curious to see how that action is running under that situation.

Some guys are perfectly fine having to work to get their bolt handle lifted. What they say is "no bolt lift" feels like I'm hoisting the titanic from the sea bed. I mean, the gun didn't explode, and the brass is good for at least 2 more firings before the primers will fall out on their own if tapped lightly on the table, but technically there was "no issue," right? :)

Doing this for a living, I often get to see claims being made online, and then those same shooters show up on my range. In every single instance, their version of "no issues" was dramatically different than mine. ... but then I'm so demanding on every element of this discipline that I'm generally no fun for casual shooters to be around. To each their own. Folks can listen to who they like.
 
I have found the 55 Berger to be a remarkably capable bullet that performs above what it’s relatively low BC would lead you to believe.
Same here. Probably all my imagination but long shots come easier for me with that bullet.
 
We all seem to have different definitions of what "without issue" means. I expect my bolt to run so well that I can put 3 rounds in the air at once, if I want to. Effortless. You can see what I'm talking about at 24:30 of my previously posted video. I'd perhaps like to see a video with chronograph on screen of 3750fps from a 26" 20BRA barrel with 55's for a string of 10-15rnds. I'd be curious to see how that action is running under that situation.

Some guys are perfectly fine having to work to get their bolt handle lifted. What they say is "no bolt lift" feels like I'm hoisting the titanic from the sea bed.
I agree! Any hope of really exceptional accuracy with any kind of rifle system, benchrest or not, is gone if opening that bolt requires resetting both yourself and the gun after working it open and closed again.
 

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