2 bee or not 2 bee. Ruger number one chambering.

[nakneker]

I have a Ruger number one currently chambered in a 22 k hornet that has been staring at me, I think whoever chamber it the first time pulled the stock barrel and rechambered it. Compared to my other k Hornet it’s spilts the necks at a much higher rate, I don’t have a lot of faith in it. I found Winchester brass and annealing helps but I don’t need two K hornets anyways and it’s a good excuse to remake the rifle. I don’t really want to sell the Ruger so I’m thinking 218 mashburn. I’d like to try something different and I see a lot of positive comments and experiences with the little mashburn. I know the neck is short, that doesnt bother me on this cartridge.

Do you have experience with the 218 bee and the Mashburn? I’d like to hear some opinions, my intent is to shoot light bullets, 35-40 grains, 45 grains at the most. Twist rate? I’m thinking 1-12/1-14. I’d like to keep the barrel relatively short, 18” or so, maybe even 16.5”.

 

[SSL]

Many moons ago I had a little 20" bull-barrel Martini in the 218 Masburn. Lots of fun, but had problems finding appropriate loading info (WAY before the internet). Most that I found used obsolete powders. I did finally settle on a 50-grain bullet over (if I remember correctly, do not blindly use this load, just a memory, not a fact!) 12 grains of Accurate 2400. Info is much easier to find now, and I sure wish I had that rifle back!
Being a big fan of Ruger #1s, I think that pairing would be sweet. Personally though I think I would go with a little longer barrel to take advantage of the Ruger's being short for barrel length due to the action being much shorter than most repeater actions. Keeps the overall length short but has the advantage of the velocity gain.

 

[nakneker]

Many moons ago I had a little 20" Martini in the 218 Masburn. Lots of fun, but had problems finding appropriate loading info (WAY before the internet). Most that I found used obsolete powders. I did finally settle on a 50-grain bullet over (if I remember correctly, do not blindly use this load, just a memory, not a fact!) 12 grains of Accurate 2400. Info is much easier to find now, and I sure wish I had that rifle back!
Being a big fan of Ruger #1s, I think that pairing would be sweet. Personally though I think I would go with a little longer barrel to take advantage of the Ruger's being short for barrel length due to the action being much shorter than most repeater actions. Keeps the overall length short but has the advantage of the velocity gain.

I’ve been reading a bit on it today, found a couple useful articles, oddly enough one author used a Martini. Links below. I’ve always wanted to try a Martini, you see some beautiful example now and again of those rifles. I’m saving links as I find them, the more data the better.

Modern Handloads for the Classic .218 Mashburn Bee | Load Data Article

The .218 Mashburn Bee is an “improved” version of the standard .218 Bee cartridge, including less case taper, lengthened chamber, sharper shoulder and shorter neck. These features increase velocity to the tune of 10 to 15 percent. Art Mashburn, a respected Oklahoma City gunsmith and owner of...

loaddata.com

.218 Mashburn Bee | Handloader Magazine

www.handloadermagazine.com

 

[lawman29]

I have an original low wall 1885 Winchester that is now chambered in 218 mashburn bee. Also a Ruger #1 in 221 Fireball. I would recommend that you also consider the fireball...

 

[K22]

Many moons ago, I encountered an old varmint hunter that shot the 218 Bee. It was single shot, and he was quite effective out 150 - 200 yards. Although I didn't witness him shooting groups, he claimed his was a 1/2 moa rifle.

Personally, I would not rechamber a rifle for an obsolete cartridge especially one of limited use and one where brass might be very difficult to find and probably terribly expensive. There are much better options for hunting and target shooting.

 

[Tommie]

Years ago a buddy searched high and low for a Ruger in .218 Bee. Finally found one. Despite TONS of load work that thing never shot better than 1.5 MOA. The gun was sold soon after.

The cartridge is a cool oldie but lots of hassle.

 

[rockhound78]

Too bad your friend doesn't still have the Bee. Lil Gun and 50gr Vmax will touch at 100yds

 

[danny]

Finding Bee brass has not been simple. Weigh that in on whatever choice you make.

Danny

 

[SSL]

I have an original low wall 1885 Winchester that is now chambered in 218 mashburn bee. Also a Ruger #1 in 221 Fireball. I would recommend that you also consider the fireball...

I really like the idea of the Fireball. Accomplish the same goals as the .218 M with a better cartridge design. Over the years I've come to think rimmed cases might well be harder to get to shoot as well as "rimless" cartridges for the same reason as many .22 rim-fire rounds...varying rim thicknesses. Just my $0.02.

 

[209jones]

Can't speak to the mashburn version, but, I built a std Bee on a 044-1/2, been using AA1680 and L'il gun in it, Hodgdon data on the Bee loads is a fair bit faster in my gun than they say, their min load, gets me their shown max speeds. Ammo and brass are still avail from a couple of mfgrs.

 

[17VLD]

Ruger #1s are in my opinion one of the most beautiful rifles ever created.The 218 Bee is a natural for a #1 due to that old time nostalgic feel one gets handling a #1.
Back in 95 I was lucky enough at that time to wander into a Denver area Gart Bros and discover a bunch of WW 218 Bee ammo cheap on closeout.I bought it all without even owning a 218 Bee.As luck would have it a little later a friend with a LGS told me about a #1 that came in that was a 218 Bee with a bunch of ammo,so I bought it.It shot very well and killed a bunch of pd’s within what I considered its useable range.Later I met a friend in Nebraska and couldn’t believe the velocities he was getting with his #1 218 and Lil Gun.I never felt the need to try his loads because I felt LilGun was a bit squirrelly in cases larger than the Hornet.I happen to like the longer barrels a #1 can use without looking to long and enjoy the free velocity a longer barrel provides, with that said I think even short barrels look ok on a #1.All this is leading up to say if I was gonna rechamber a #1 and cut it back to a somewhat shorter barrel length of say 22” or 23” I think I would definitely consider a 221 or even better I would love a .222 #1.Mostly due to the current availability of 218 brass and the fact that a 221 or 222 would certainly be in the velocity range of a longer barreled 218 Bee pretty easily with brass that can be had or made for quite some time.Just my .02

 

[AWS]

I shot a Marlin 1894 218 Bee for a long time. It was a great little rifle for coyotes. With the plethora of small .224 rounds out there I never saw the need to blow out the the Bee, need more Umph, grab the 222. Back in the day it might have been worth while to build a Mashburn Bee, today I can't see it. The original Bee is pretty nice as is. 46gr Win HPs were very accurate and killed coyotes.

 

[nakneker]

Lots of good points being made. It certainly is dated or even outdated in many ways. 222 is my favorite cartridge, has been since I was a teen and was allowed to shoot my Uncle’s Sako, that rifle became legendary amongst our family. In the way of 222s I currently have 7 of them including one 18” custom 700 that my wife claimed. I have a couple cases of Lapua 222 brass so anything 222 related would make things easier as far as brass or dies. I just had a 20-222 built, Zack with ODCR did the work and it’s a lot of fun, built on a Tikka action, extremely accurate. 222, 223, 221FB cases and their variants have every advantage over the old 218bee, I couldn’t agree more.

That being said I’ve been interested in more of the oddball stuff like the Mashburn, or mink and squirrel cartridges based on the hornet. I really wish we still had The Woodchuck Den around, it just made such endeavors so much easier and Todd was always game for something different. There is certainly more cons than pros concerning the 218 Mashburn, I’ll have to think on it more. Maybe doing a 20-222 would be fun, I have the reamer now so that would be easy.

I appreciate the feedback, makes a guy think for sure. There’s plenty of time to think this one out.

 

[chuckshooter]

I have a 20 Ackley hornet several 20 killer bees . All shoot 32gr vmax very well. I had some masburn brass that i had inherited and looked at it for quite a while before making my deccission. I was just not happy with the under proformance of the small cartridge 22 cal. Stuff. So i switched them to .20 cal. I also thought long and hard about a 219 zipper. My other cartridge that i love is a rimmed 20 vartarg based on the dan wesson 360 case. Or You can make the brass out of 357 max brass but, The dw360 brass is easier to get from starline and less trimming when formed. That's my suggestion, go .20 cal. Cuss once you go 20 you will never go back. I think that is how the phrase goes, or maybe i' m confusing it with something else.

 

[nakneker]

Cuss once you go 20 you will never go back. I think that is how the phrase goes, or maybe i' m confusing it with something else.

Made me laugh. I have a 20PPC, 20-222 and understand what you’re saying, too fun. I’m glad companies started seeing the potential in the 20 cal and offer the variety of bullets we have now, could still use some more.

I didn’t know what a killer bee was, went over to Saubier and just read a good thread on the 20 killer bee. Gonna read more. The rimmed 20 VT sounds interesting but I like idea of necking down some 218 brass and you’re off to the races. Is 218 brass as fragile as hornet brass, do you get split necks when forming the Killer bee? What’s your barrel lengths on your killer bees, I’m wondering what the difference in velocity with a 18” barrel vs 22-23”. How hard are dies to find? What powder are using in your killer bees for the 32 grain Vmax? I appreciate the input and help.

I’ve been looking for 218 brass, found some. A guy will either have to get lucky or just bite the bullet and pay premium and be done with it.

 

[chuckshooter]

Made me laugh. I have a 20PPC, 20-222 and understand what you’re saying, too fun. I’m glad companies started seeing the potential in the 20 cal and offer the variety of bullets we have now, could still use some more.

I didn’t know what a killer bee was, went over to Saubier and just read a good thread on the 20 killer bee. Gonna read more. The rimmed 20 VT sounds interesting but I like idea of necking down some 218 brass and you’re off to the races. Is 218 brass as fragile as hornet brass, do you get split necks when forming the Killer bee? What’s your barrel lengths on your killer bees, I’m wondering what the difference in velocity with a 18” barrel vs 22-23”. How hard are dies to find? What powder are using in your killer bees for the 32 grain Vmax? I appreciate the input and help.

I’ve been looking for 218 brass, found some. A guy will either have to get lucky or just bite the bullet and pay premium and be done with it.

I went thru a learning curve on the KB and lost a lot of brass, I didn't have a good reamer to die fit and head spacing off the rim just didn't work out well for me. that is when I learned if it's not a saimi cartridge, it's called a wildcat and you should not use the phrase "standard", instead say "the most popular design" eventually I figured it out and all is well. I have whidden dies for the KB and a set of RCBS dies in 20 ackley bee,
I use aa1680 in both the 20 AH and 20 KB.
barrels are 24" to 26" I don't know what what velocity difference would be in a shorter barrel but mine run 3500 to 3600 FPS
My latest version is actually a 20 Ackley bee with a 30 degree shoulder instead of the 40 degree and I make the brass out of starline 32-20. I don't see any difference in performance and I already had the dies.
in the picture, the 2 on the left are KB and the same size. the right is Ackley bee and the shoulder is a little shorter. Mine are all on Martini actions

 

[nakneker]

I went thru a learning curve on the KB and lost a lot of brass, I didn't have a good reamer to die fit and head spacing off the rim just didn't work out well for me. that is when I learned if it's not a saimi cartridge, it's called a wildcat and you should not use the phrase "standard", instead say "the most popular design" eventually I figured it out and all is well. I have whidden dies for the KB and a set of RCBS dies in 20 ackley bee,
I use aa1680 in both the 20 AH and 20 KB.
barrels are 24" to 26" I don't know what what velocity difference would be in a shorter barrel but mine run 3500 to 3600 FPS
My latest version is actually a 20 Ackley bee with a 30 degree shoulder instead of the 40 degree and I make the brass out of starline 32-20. I don't see any difference in performance and I already had the dies.
in the picture, the 2 on the left are KB and the same size. the right is Ackley bee and the shoulder is a little shorter. Mine are all on Martini actions

Now that’s looks like fun. How is making the brass from 32-20? Those Martini actions have always intrigued me too.

 

[SEM]

I went with the Fireball over the Bee's and made it rimmed using 360 Dan Wesson brass easier to find much longer lasting brass

 

[nakneker]

Ok, decided to go to hit the easy button and get a 20-222 barrel installed. I have the brass, the dies, the reamer. The mighty 218 Mashburn is not gonna happen on this one. Thanks for the Input!

 

[17VLD]

I think you are smart to hit the easy button with a new caliber/barrel.
20/222 is a fun one as you already know. I think a 20 caliber #1 will be very cool.
I originally thought you wanted to utilize the original barrel and rechamber and stay 22 caliber.Glad to see you are making that #1 into what will undoubtedly be a great shooter.