218 Bee Improved

[nvtoy]

Might be an Ackley Improved version, shoulder further back than Mashburn. I have cases for both versions if you need a look see.

 

[Phil Peterson]

REM, I sent you a message

 

[Fire Dog]

I've been looking to build a #2 rolling block in 218Bee for a long time but couldn't pass this up even though I really can't afford it. But I will get over that shortly and hope to enjoy this one for a long time. Also has a USMC scope mounted on it which is about 1/2 value of what I paid.

Remington?
Distinctly shows the BSA stacked rifles on the side of the action… Martini indeed.
Lovely rifle and I am assuming the #2 Rem Roller is not pictured….
Had a Remington rolling block in 45-70 many years ago and it was a hoot to shoot… especially over long range.

 

[chuckshooter]

Remington?
Distinctly shows the BSA stacked rifles on the side of the action… Martini indeed.
Lovely rifle and I am assuming the #2 Rem Roller is not pictured….
Had a Remington rolling block in 45-70 many years ago and it was a hoot to shoot… especially over long range.

Read the op post again more carefully

I picked up a J.K. Cloward built Martini in 218 Bee Improved yesterday. Printed on the barrel "J.K. Cloward 218 Bee Improved" Any ideas what Improved might be? The gentleman I got it from was only able to locate one piece of fired brass and it is significantly different than a Mashburn in the shoulder area. I hope to load some standard 218 in the morning and depending on the weather fireform a couple pieces of brass just to confirm that it is correct. Google mostly tells me that 218 Improved is a Mashburn and there is very little info on any of the other 218 wildcats either on the net or in the books I have. Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.

Can you post a picture of the case?

 

[Remingtonroller*]

Here is a picture of the fire formed case on the bottom and also a rough drawing with dimensions.

 

[chuckshooter]

your case is approximately .060 shorter to the shoulder than published mashburn data. I believe this picture is of a mashburn bee case. doesn't really matter what it is called, once you get enough well fired cases, you can send them off to have custom dies made. I love my martinis. mine are all cadets, I think yours with the thumb screw is a converted rim fire action. the side walls of the rimfire action are typically thicker than the cadet model.

 

[Remingtonroller*]

Might be an Ackley Improved version, shoulder further back than Mashburn. I have cases for both versions if you need a look see.

if you can please send me a picture.

 

[Remingtonroller*]

What I have found thus far:
Length to shoulder:
Ackley Improved- .93
Mashburn- .921
Mine- 1.04
218 ICL Bobcat- 1.023

Neck length:
Ackley Improved- .22
Mashburn- .258
Mine- .223
ICL Bobcat- .280
In my reading I have found reference to: 218 Bee Improved ( which is what my gun is stamped)
218 Ackley Bee
218 Mashburn
218 Mashburn Improved (are these 2 the same?)
218 Leech Bee
218 Leech Bee Improved (are these 2 the same?)
218 I.C.L. Improved Bee (same as 218 ICL Bobcat?)
218 HeeBee

 

[Remingtonroller*]

your case is approximately .060 shorter to the shoulder than published mashburn data. I believe this picture is of a mashburn bee case. doesn't really matter what it is called, once you get enough well fired cases, you can send them off to have custom dies made. I love my martinis. mine are all cadets, I think yours with the thumb screw is a converted rim fire action. the side walls of the rimfire action are typically thicker than the cadet model.
View attachment 1699722

Thanks for the picture. The gentleman I picked this up from has a Mashburn and that case is significantly different.

 

[chuckshooter]

What I have found thus far:
Length to shoulder:
Ackley Improved- .93
Mashburn- .921
Mine- 1.04
218 ICL Bobcat- 1.023

Neck length:
Ackley Improved- .22
Mashburn- .258
Mine- .223
ICL Bobcat- .280
In my reading I have found reference to: 218 Bee Improved ( which is what my gun is stamped)
218 Ackley Bee
218 Mashburn
218 Mashburn Improved (are these 2 the same?)
218 Leech Bee
218 Leech Bee Improved (are these 2 the same?)
218 I.C.L. Improved Bee (same as 218 ICL Bobcat?)
218 HeeBee

my massburn print dimension shows, to the shoulder 1.099. includes the .061 rim. if you are looking at prints, make sure it includes the rim. neck length .1574 .. I never liked that short of a neck. on my killer bees, I had a new reamer ground so I would have more neck to work with. I like your case. I think it's got good dimensions. the only thing that would make it better would be, if it was a .20 caliber.

 

[wupterchook]

Thank you, that would be appreciated.

Here's what my .218 Bee improved looks like next to a factory cartridge. My barrel is unmarked. I didn't know was something other than a .218 until I shot it the first time.

 

[snert]

I admit I didn't read all the spec's but if a standard 218 fits, then shoot a few in it and then send the brass to Forster or Redding and ask for a die set up. Open your wallet. If you don't find out what its called, name it after yourself. Viola' ...dun

 

[Remingtonroller*]

I was able to get out and fire form some cases today and I'm pretty happy with this little guy. It was only 50 yards but still not bad for the first time and fire forming also, should only get better from here. 45 grain Speer & 11 grains of IMR4227. I can de-prime with a generic die and I used a Lyman PA1 seating die made for 221 through 223 Rem. The case comes out at .222 so seating a .223 works good with out having to do any sizing. I'll probably still look at having a set of dies built but for now it seems to work fine this way. It makes a nice looking little cartridge. I am having a bit of trouble with adjusting the Unertyl scope, really no difference adjusting from one end to the other, quite blurry at 50 yards.

 

[Remingtonroller*]

I found directions on adjusting the scope and think I have figured out what I was doing wrong. We'll see tomorrow.