I need some advice. I am looking at either a Cooper 17 fireball or a CZ 527 17 Hornet and I can't decide on which one. I plan on reloading either one.
17 Fireball or 17 Hornet
- Thread starter Double Draw
- Start date
17 fireball! I love my17 fireball but, I guess. it depends on what your use is for how fast you are going to be shooting and what your targets are going to be.
P.S. I have both
Edit to say, how far not fast
P.S. I have both
Edit to say, how far not fast
tjtjwdad
Gold $$ Contributor
I would say it depends on target size & distance. The 17FB out runs the 17H and it will also buck the wind better to. It also uses about 1/3 more powder.
I have a 20VT [17 FB necked up to 20-cal] and there is no muzzle jump with mine and the muzzle blast is reduced significantly say from a 204-Ruger. My rifle is a REM 700 17FB SOS converted to 20VT. Couldn't be happier.
HTH & good luck,
I have a 20VT [17 FB necked up to 20-cal] and there is no muzzle jump with mine and the muzzle blast is reduced significantly say from a 204-Ruger. My rifle is a REM 700 17FB SOS converted to 20VT. Couldn't be happier.
HTH & good luck,
If you have the money, go with the Cooper in 17 Fireball. The CZ is hardly a rifle to compare to the Cooper, price is probably half of what you will pay for the Cooper. There a two draw backs to the CZ 17HH. First there is the present situation of finding brass or ammo for the 17HH. Then there is the problem of the CZ only being able to shoot factory length ammo through the magazine. I recently bought a CZ 527, 17 Hornady Hornet. I made my own cases from 22 Hornet ammo and modified the magazine so I can load 25g V-Max bullets closer to the rifling. If you're not a tinkerer, it is a must to understand these short comings of the CZ. With that said, I think the CZ offers a great value for the shooter/reloader that is willing to spend some time customizing.
Bangs OH
Silver $$ Contributor
DD: Run as fast as you can from the overrated .17 Hornet. I couldn't get rid of my pos HH Savage fast enough; the CZ might be more accurate, but still not in the same league as the Fireball, just as loud if that's an issue, and harder to reload. Calhoon's .19 Hornet, even with limited ammo type and rifles at twice the price, would be a better choice for a Hornet imo. But I'll stick with my .221 Fireballs, and turn one into a .17 FB or .20 VarTarg if I want something different.
I would go with the cooper at twice the price ( or more ) if it me but I like coopers because they seem to fit me better and they are all shooters. I don't care for mag on the cz. You can load the fireball down to the hornet vel. but can't load the hornet up. I got the fb thinking I would be able to shoot the 30 gr golds but my gun doesn't like them. I do think you should consider the 20 vt as it is the same size case as fb but you gain 100 -200 yds over the fb. My cz is a 222 my fireball is a rem. 7 and my var-targ is a cooper. I must have gotten lucky with my model 7 as I I've not had the problems others have had. The cooper classic is a great gun if you will be doing a lot of walking but like the varminter from the bench. Good luck with whatever you choose.
thekriebles
Gold $$ Contributor
LCazador said:
+1 on above. In addition, I believe the 17 Fireball affords a shooter more flexibility in the ability to load a variety of bullet weights up to 32 grains vs. the Hornet's ability.
Thanks everyone this is great I am gaining a lot of knowledge.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
DoubleDraw: I shoot both Coopers and CZ's in 17AH, 17 Mach IV (same as 17FB), 20VT, 204R and up the caliber scale. That said, and not really knowing what your shooting will involve, I'd strongly advise a 20VT as an alternative.
It will do everything the 17FB will do, but do it better with better bullet selection too. The 17HH has problems from the factory, not solved entirely yet, but either the FB or the VT will outperform the Hornet cased version in every regard. Some of the smallest groups I've ever fired were from my Cooper 20VT. I seldom shoot my 17M4 or 17AH these days, much preferring the 20VT.
As I spend up to 50-60 days afield every year for grass rats and chucks, I've found the 20VT does it best with minimal powder used, zero recoil (see all your hits through the scope), amazing accuracy and a distinct lack of barrel heating.
Cooper and CZ are not in the same catagory either. I own and like both, but there's no comparison really. Get the Cooper if you can and never look back.
It will do everything the 17FB will do, but do it better with better bullet selection too. The 17HH has problems from the factory, not solved entirely yet, but either the FB or the VT will outperform the Hornet cased version in every regard. Some of the smallest groups I've ever fired were from my Cooper 20VT. I seldom shoot my 17M4 or 17AH these days, much preferring the 20VT.
As I spend up to 50-60 days afield every year for grass rats and chucks, I've found the 20VT does it best with minimal powder used, zero recoil (see all your hits through the scope), amazing accuracy and a distinct lack of barrel heating.
Cooper and CZ are not in the same catagory either. I own and like both, but there's no comparison really. Get the Cooper if you can and never look back.
There is quite a difference in the bullet velocity between the 20 Gr V-Max fired from a 17 Hornet and 17 Fireball. Per Hodgan reloading data web site the max velocity of the 20 Gr bullet was 3,629 ft/sec while the same bullet fire from the Fireball was listed as 4,038 ft/sec. The 25 Gr grain bullet from the Hornet listed at 3,283 ft/sec. The Fireball fired the 25 grain bullet out at 3,850 ft/sec. The 17 Hornet uses about half the weight of powder than the Fireball so the Hornet has a higher ft/sec per grain of powder ratio. With the higher velocity of the bullets fired from the Fireball it has a flatter trajectory curve. When I checked a few years ago the Cooper was a single shot and the CZ has a five shot magazine. Iv have had two Cooper rifles for some time and just got a CZ 17 Hornet rifle which I have not fired. I don't know what critters you plan on hunting or the longest distance shots will be made.. An old rule: Better To Be Over Gunned Than Under.
I have a 77/22 with a Pacnor super match in tight chambered 17HH and it is by far my favorite prairie dog round.. out to 225 yds. It is a bit quieter than my 17 FB. When the wind is a blowing hard, the 17FB will be better, and at longer range. I would think real hard about the .20 VT. I have a 1-10 twist custom chamber .204, so I don't see the need for myself, but anyone that has them, loves them.
I have had a .17 Hornet in the CZ 527 Varmint model for a few years. I am very happy with it. I am a benchrest shooter so accuracy matters to me. I don’t have a .17 FB but I do have a .221 FB. The .17 Hornet is my favorite prairie dog rifle. The mild recoil and accuracy make it a joy to shoot. I don’t like the CZ trigger and have replaced it. My .17 Hornet will consistently shoot .5” and smaller 3-shot groups at 100 yds. I reload Hornady brass for it. When the wind blows, use something else although it’s fun to hold-off and make hits.
17VLD
Gold $$ Contributor
Like potato chips no one can have just one
If I could only have one small cal,I would definitely pick the 20 VarTarg like Rick and others have mentioned it really is a little dynamo.I got started with a 17Mach 1V as my first small caliber centerfire many years ago,largely because of Todd Kindlers writing in PS.I absolutely love this round and the fact that Lapua has brass in 221 Fireball is flat awesome.Later I got a 17AH and then the Calhoon 19 calibers too.All are fun,the pedigree that the 20 VT has from Todd makes it great in my mind,it’s a better 17Mach 1V.Like others have said buy a small caliber Cooper and you will never be sorry,no matter the chambering.I think the 19s are here to stay and wouldn’t hesitate to get one as Sierra has decided to make Blitz Kings for James and Benchmark barrels are available too.It just really depends on your taste and needs.In the end if it was me I would have a 17AH or 17HH AND a 19 Badger or 20VT your choice for most of your varminting fun.
Matt
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