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17-204 vs 20 Practical

I ordered bullets from Bruno's 2 days ago and they shipped no problem. From what I've heard both Gun Owners of CA and the Cal Guns guys have all said components are not being restricted. Yet anyways...
 
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SB1235, Section 2, 16150(b) - the definition of ammunition: "Ammunition" includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine clip, speed loader, auto-loader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence, "Ammunition" does not include blanks.

There is no separate definition of ammunition for "prohibited persons". I do believe "bullet" and "projectile" and "cartridge" pretty well covered bullets and brass. One can interpret this any way one wants.....



Sections 30305 ans 30306 referenced in (b) refer to the "prohibited persons" All below was cut directly from Senate Bill 1235:




SEC. 2.
Section 16150 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16150.
(a) As used in this part, except as specified in subdivision (b), “ammunition” means one or more loaded cartridges consisting of a primer case, propellant, and with one or more projectiles. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.
(b) As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.


30305.
(a) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, shall own, possess, or have under custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

(2) A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year or in the state prison, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

(b) (1) A person who is not prohibited by subdivision (a) from owning, possessing, or having under the person’s custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition, but who is enjoined from engaging in activity pursuant to an injunction issued pursuant to Section 3479 of the Civil Code against that person as a member of a criminal street gang, as defined in Section 186.22, may not own, possess, or have under the person’s custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

(2) A violation of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.

(c) A violation of subdivision (a) or (b) is justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The person found the ammunition or reloaded ammunition or took the ammunition or reloaded ammunition from a person who was committing a crime against the person who found or took the ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

(2) The person possessed the ammunition or reloaded ammunition no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a law enforcement agency for that agency’s disposition according to law.

(3) The person is prohibited from possessing any ammunition or reloaded ammunition solely because that person is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm only by virtue of Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) of Division 9 or ammunition or reloaded ammunition because of subdivision (b).

(d) Upon the trial for violating subdivision (a) or (b), the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant is subject to the exemption created by subdivision (c). The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant is subject to the exemption provided by subdivision (c).

30306.
(a) Any person, corporation, firm, or other business enterprise who supplies, delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 30305, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(b) Any person, corporation, firm, or other business enterprise who supplies, delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person whom the person, corporation, firm, or other business enterprise knows or has cause to believe is not the actual purchaser or transferee of the ammunition, with knowledge or cause to believe that the ammunition is to be subsequently sold or transferred to a person who is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under custody or control any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 30305, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(c) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and another provision of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.
 
RATBUSTER; In the absence of a different definition of "ammunition" for those people NOT prohibited from owning firearms as described in the text you outline, the definition shown will likely be construed as to what ammunition consists of in any situation relevant to the sale of such in the State of California. After all, say one gets arrested and the court asks what is the definition of ammo? This will be it in the absence of any other definitions for us lawfully able to own firearms. You can bet the prosecution will not drop the case because one thinks that definition only applied to those not entitled to own firearms. If brass and bullets are part of the definition of 'ammunition' as shown, and the law is very clear that sales of such must be done on a face-to-face in California, this seems pretty clear. I state all of this not to contest you - but because a lot of readers who want to remain law-abiding buyers might want to be very clear on this before buying brass and bullets online. That might mean proving what I believe to be wrong in their own minds- or confirming it to be correct. One can be sure that Cabelas, Midsouth Shooters Supply and a lot of the other huge retailers didn't give up selling to California without their corporate attorneys looking this over. All said, I hope you are right!!!
 
RATBUSTER; In the absence of a different definition of "ammunition" for those people NOT prohibited from owning firearms as described in the text you outline, the definition shown will likely be construed as to what ammunition consists of in any situation relevant to the sale of such in the State of California. After all, say one gets arrested and the court asks what is the definition of ammo? This will be it in the absence of any other definitions for us lawfully able to own firearms. You can bet the prosecution will not drop the case because one thinks that definition only applied to those not entitled to own firearms. If brass and bullets are part of the definition of 'ammunition' as shown, and the law is very clear that sales of such must be done on a face-to-face in California, this seems pretty clear. I state all of this not to contest you - but because a lot of readers who want to remain law-abiding buyers might want to be very clear on this before buying brass and bullets online. That might mean proving what I believe to be wrong in their own minds- or confirming it to be correct. One can be sure that Cabelas, Midsouth Shooters Supply and a lot of the other huge retailers didn't give up selling to California without their corporate attorneys looking this over. All said, I hope you are right!!!

It seems pretty clear to me. If you are not prohibited from owning firearms then ammunition is defined as an assembled cartridge, not components.
 
Note that just prior to the :"loaded ammo" definition in 16152 (a) that you are basing your interpretation,
it says "except as specified in subdivision (b)"
Subdivision (b) provides the definition of ammunition to include that of bullets and cartridges
Subdivision (b) states "As used in subdivision (a) of section 30305 and section 30306" prior to that definition
While section 30305 addresses those not allowed to own firearms, section 30306 does not, quite the contrary.
This clearly states that both of the definitions are to be used - and not just in section 30305, but also section 30306, which includes ANY person or business.

This is the language that is the cause of our loss of retailers.
 
SB1235, Section 2, 16150(b) - the definition of ammunition: "Ammunition" includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine clip, speed loader, auto-loader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence, "Ammunition" does not include blanks.

There is no separate definition of ammunition for "prohibited persons". I do believe "bullet" and "projectile" and "cartridge" pretty well covered bullets and brass. One can interpret this any way one wants.....

if you read which section it pertains to carefully . you will see that it is talking about person who are prohibited from owning firearms. components are NOT banned from internet sales for people who can legally own firearms.
 
Right you are, Chuckshooter. I live in the "Condor Zone", where everything hunted must be lead free and I sometimes forget we are not all applicable to this situation fully as of yet.
 
Right you are, Chuckshooter. I live in the "Condor Zone", where everything hunted must be lead free and I sometimes forget we are not all applicable to this situation fully as of yet.
I have decided not to participate in the lead ban. meaning when it completely takes effect, I am not going to shoot squirrels in CA anymore. and if it keeps going the way it's been going, I may have to move. ammo ban. mag ban. it won't be long before it will be against the law in CA just to think about owning a gun. but if I want to smoke pot, no problem
 
Yeah - no kidding. And now - the whole forest around where I live has about all burnt down. Just when you think it can't get any worse.....
 
I was able to acquire a supply of the "new" Lehigh Defense .17 caliber 20 grain bullets just days before the deadline for mail-order purchases in California. If it weren't bad enough we now must use non-lead for all hunting, now we can't purchase brass, ammo or bullets through the mail. Good-bye Powder Valley and all my other favorite retailers. O.K. - enough ranting. I'm really happy someone came up with a .17 lead-free for us reloaders. Has anyone out there loaded these things in a .17 Hornet? Loads? Results? Your input is very much appreciated.
Its just loaded ammo you can not buy, not components. At least not yet.
 

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