100 yard (real world) repeatable accuracy for 22 LR

[Caveman Jim]

Accuracy equals a good rest, lots of practice, consistent techniques and $.
Good luck on your quest for 100 yard MOA.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Mark and Sam After Work did a .22 rimfire build with lots of ammo testing. He found over 100 fps variation out of the same box of ammo. So until you can overcome those short comings with factory ammo, I wouldn't set your expectations too high.

 

[1813benny]

Mark and Sam After Work did a .22 rimfire build with lots of ammo testing. He found over 100 fps variation out of the same box of ammo. So until you can overcome those short comings with factory ammo, I wouldn't set your expectations too high.

What ammunition was used that yielded the 100 fps variation? Also, number of different lots tested, etc.?

 

[CNC-Dude]

I'll find his video and post a link.

 

[ROBARRC50]

150 yards .... Stock gun. No lot testing outside .... Speechless.

Thanks i probably got a lucky rifle. I still need to shoot sk pistol match at this target.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Here is an in depth video where he shows the wide range of ES he encountered.

Here...

 

[grauhanen]

Mark and Sam After Work did a .22 rimfire build with lots of ammo testing. He found over 100 fps variation out of the same box of ammo. So until you can overcome those short comings with factory ammo, I wouldn't set your expectations too high.

The link provided in your post #106 shows a video in which the ammo in question is .22 WMR.

Shooters may expect an ES over 100 fps with .22 WMR ammo so it's not surprising. There is no match 22 mag ammo available.

 

[jsof]

I have had a Vudoo for more than two years now and think that sub moa at 100 yards is very likely if, as said above, the ammo lot suits the barrel and conditions are calm or you're a good wind reader. I shot these in response to a rimfire central challenge to shoot 50 rounds at 100 yards. The Center X at the bottom is from a lot test at Lapua, but the SK Standard Plus above is only from self lot testing. It's not sub 1" on that one but still that includes the four fliers.
I'm no marksman so if I can do it, anyone can.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I have had a Vudoo for more than two years now and think that sub moa at 100 yards is very likely if, as said above, the ammo lot suits the barrel and conditions are calm or you're a good wind reader. I shot these in response to a rimfire central challenge to shoot 50 rounds at 100 yards. The Center X at the bottom is from a lot test at Lapua, but the SK Standard Plus above is only from self lot testing. It's not sub 1" on that one but still that includes the four fliers.
I'm no marksman so if I can do it, anyone can.

Hey Joe, I hope you bought as much of that CX as you could! was that with the same tuner setup?
great shooting

Lee

 

[jamesdmock]

At the October .22 LR benchrest match, Jeff Turner shot a 200/200 score on a 1 inch ten-ring target at 100 yards with a 2500 Stiller rifle. He used Eley black box match ammo.

 

[kevin nevius]

linebaugh, as you can see from the national records above, Prone shooters (shooting off a sling holding their rifles, not off a bench) have been able to shoot 40 consecutive X-ring shots, (which is 1 MOA). This has been done with some older and newer position smallbore target rifles. If I remember right, George Stidworthy used a Remington 37 (discontinued in 1955 in favor of the 40X). Certainly from the bench with a good barrel and good matching ammo, this is certainly possible. Quite often, a newer shooter thinks that all he needs is really good ammo OR a really accurate rifle. In reality, he needs both. It's expensive, but there is seldom a shortcut to consistently small groups.

George and Mary Stidworthy were absolutely world class shooters - and were also the Eley importers during this period (as I recall). When you combine world class talent with access to many many lots of great ammunition you get records that will never be broken (at least not in my lifetime).

After competing for many years, and building and testing many championship rifles (for myself and others) I can say that any tuned rifle / lot CONSISTENTLY under a minute is exceptional. My personal standard has always been .700" (outside edge) aggregate over at least (5) 10 shot groups in perfect conditions. In 30 years of smallbore competition, I have only met this standard twice (and I did not with the Nationals in either of those years).

100 yard success (as many have mentioned here) is about much more than raw accuracy. Wind deflection is a major consideration - and there is a significant difference in fast vs slower lots (given the same accuracy potential, a 1080fps lot will get you murdered against a 1050fps lot every time). But the issue has always been trying to get great accuracy from slower lots. The industry standardized many years ago at around 1060fps, because it was the perfect blend of speed and reduced wind deflection (faster lots are inherently more accurate). When Federal announced UltraMatch it was initially introduced supersonic - and the raw performance across all lots was amazing - in my lifetime, it has been the only example of ammunition that you could purchase untested (it was that good). But it would absolutely kill you in Camp Perry winds @ 100 yards. In my experience, it has always been a lot more difficult to get slower lots to shoot well across the board.

I remember having many conversations with Lones Wigger during the development of the ammunition, and it was his opinion that world class competitors could make use of the raw accuracy more that the wind deflection benefits - it was the shooters responsibility to make good wind calls, and he is probably right, especially on the baffled 50m ranges used in Olympic competition (and given the deflection difference is not as meaningful at 50 meters anyway).

This season I tested (and used) a 320mps lot (approx. 1050fps), which was one of the slowest Midas+ lots I have used. It was / is exceptional at 100 yards, and was at least a half scoring ring inside my faster lots in overall wind deflection. Smallbore prone matches are frequently decided at 100 yards, and any advantage (like this) is absolutely critical - especially when the margin for error is nonexistent.

Many talk about "wallet groups" , but IMHO .700" consistent accuracy from any RF is very rare indeed.

Hope this helps, wishing you much success,

kev

 

[Tim Slater]

George and Mary Stidworthy were absolutely world class shooters - and were also the Eley importers during this period (as I recall). When you combine world class talent with access to many many lots of great ammunition you get records that will never be broken (at least not in my lifetime).
kev

Kevin,

In your opinion, did the location have any significant impact on Mary Stidworthy's record (140 something Xs from memory)? I have in mind that it wasn't shot at Camp Perry. It was a phenomenal effort, requiring enormous stamina, mental and physical, shooting what was nearly a second complete match, let alone staying within the X all the while. It seems that weather conditions must have plated a part. Was that range known for being readable, and producing high scores?

 

[linebaugh]

To all the 1050fps wind ideas. I don't do benchrest and dont know the rules but it seems completely reasonable that a 50gr bullet at 1050 would be a perfect fit. Why are we stuck in a box with 40gr bullets only?

 

[jsof]

Hey Joe, I hope you bought as much of that CX as you could! was that with the same tuner setup?
great shooting

Lee

Lee,
Sure did, as in 2 cases. And, that is with the tuner you modified for me way back when. Both the CX and the SK are on the same setting which seems to shoot just about anything I feed it well.
Joe

 

[grauhanen]

Many talk about "wallet groups" , but IMHO .700" consistent accuracy from any RF is very rare indeed.

That must indeed be a very elusive standard of consistency.

I shot a few ten shot groups at 100 yards between August and October this year using two different rifles. While I had "wallet groups" in the .5's and .6's, they certainly were not frequent. Over 40 ten-shot groups, the best lot gave me a .892" center-to-center average . The next best were lots that averaged .920" over 89 ten-shot groups and .952" over 77 groups.

When the rifle and shooting technique is reasonably sound and wind isn't a factor, the biggest challenge is always in finding suitable ammo.

 

[dutch14]

I for the most part agree with the above. However, the shooter is the weakest link in shooting anything. There is an ammo test done on an indoor range at 100 yds. and the results indicate there isn't a lot of difference between mid-grade, high-grade and low grade 22 rimfire ammo, but there is a difference of maybe half an inch. The right up is posted some were in the articles section of this forum. To the above your a better shot than I am, I might be able to match yours at 50 yds. on a still morning.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,
Sure did, as in 2 cases. And, that is with the tuner you modified for me way back when. Both the CX and the SK are on the same setting which seems to shoot just about anything I feed it well.
Joe

Thanks Joe, I always like to know how it works out as it helps with others who ask about the lite tuner setups.

Lee

 

[kevin nevius]

Kevin,

In your opinion, did the location have any significant impact on Mary Stidworthy's record (140 something Xs from memory)? I have in mind that it wasn't shot at Camp Perry. It was a phenomenal effort, requiring enormous stamina, mental and physical, shooting what was nearly a second complete match, let alone staying within the X all the while. It seems that weather conditions must have plated a part. Was that range known for being readable, and producing high scores?

Good morning Tim:

I wish I could answer your question with confidence - to the best of my memory (which is not what it used to be! LOL) is was not at Camp Perry - I was thinking it was in PA (maybe Ken Benyo could elaborate?).

It is an absolutely amazing record though. I honestly don't think todays elite BR shooters could match it (in conditions, from a bench). I don't believe it will ever be equaled again.

We have a east coast regional (the Mid Atlantic 6400) in Palmyra, PA - near Hershey. The range is fairly protected, and on calm days the scores are enormous there. I remember one day of the regional shooting a 1600-140+ X's and coming in 6th overall. I watched Justin Tracy shoot a 1600-156x there - he's exceptional and anything north of 150x's is really rare indeed.

That same year Justin and I shot 400-40x's in the yard and meter matches, so both of us decided to shoot for the National record. I think I made it to the second card and Justin the third - both about 100x's short. It really put it into perspective - how unbelievable a feat those records are.

All the very best to you and yours,

kev

 

[Tim Slater]

Good morning Tim:

I wish I could answer your question with confidence - to the best of my memory (which is not what it used to be! LOL) is was not at Camp Perry - I was thinking it was in PA (maybe Ken Benyo could elaborate?).

It is an absolutely amazing record though. I honestly don't think todays elite BR shooters could match it (in conditions, from a bench). I don't believe it will ever be equaled again.

We have a east coast regional (the Mid Atlantic 6400) in Palmyra, PA - near Hershey. The range is fairly protected, and on calm days the scores are enormous there. I remember one day of the regional shooting a 1600-140+ X's and coming in 6th overall. I watched Justin Tracy shoot a 1600-156x there - he's exceptional and anything north of 150x's is really rare indeed.

That same year Justin and I shot 400-40x's in the yard and meter matches, so both of us decided to shoot for the National record. I think I made it to the second card and Justin the third - both about 100x's short. It really put it into perspective - how unbelievable a feat those records are.

All the very best to you and yours,

kev

Thank you Kevin.

Bill Neff discussed the Record Record few years back on Rimfirecentral, and I think he also said Mary didn't shoot it at Camp Perry.

There are just times when all the planets align, and the shooter is mentally on form, and it's a marvel to watch them. I was lucky enough to get tickets for the Prone match at the 2012 Olympics. That was a tricky range. I was behind Eric Uptagrafft, and could see he was frustrated with the conditions, as were other shooters in form that year. I could see Martynov too as he coolly shot 600, banging away at his own pace, bar a brief pause in the last string; whether that was for wind or nerves I'll never know.

I have heard rumours that his Olymp was slooow: 280ms slow.

 

[1813benny]

Thank you Kevin.

Bill Neff discussed the Record Record few years back on Rimfirecentral, and I think he also said Mary didn't shoot it at Camp Perry.

There are just times when all the planets align, and the shooter is mentally on form, and it's a marvel to watch them. I was lucky enough to get tickets for the Prone match at the 2012 Olympics. That was a tricky range. I was behind Eric Uptagrafft, and could see he was frustrated with the conditions, as were other shooters in form that year. I could see Martynov too as he coolly shot 600, banging away at his own pace, bar a brief pause in the last string; whether that was for wind or nerves I'll never know.

I have heard rumours that his Olymp was slooow: 280ms slow.

Mary set the record at the Wilkes-Barre Rifle & Pistol club here In Pennsylvania.

The range is located near the top of the mountain and the day to day conditions can run on opposite ends of the spectrum. On the day she set the record, it was -obviously - relatively calm.

A link with some photos of the range.
Wilkes-Barre R&P

One part of the story - verified by George Harris - was that the range officer at the time was getting upset and was asking who was going to pay for all of the additional targets.