NRA core mission effectiveness

[ronsatspokane]

Here's the relevant text from the Bill.. WA State HB 2421

The 6PPD mitigation fee is separate from and in addition to the $5 vehicle tire fee, but, like the
$5 tire fee, is collected from the seller of the tire. However, unlike the $5 vehicle tire fee, the
seller may not collect the 6PPD mitigation fee from the buyer, charge it as a separate line item at
the point of sale, or display the fee on a receipt provided to a customer.

Beyond the pail. Retailer cannot tell the citizen what the state is taking from them. Never thought I'd see that.

 

[Texas Solo]

Here's the relevant text from the Bill.. WA State HB 2421

The 6PPD mitigation fee is separate from and in addition to the $5 vehicle tire fee, but, like the
$5 tire fee, is collected from the seller of the tire. However, unlike the $5 vehicle tire fee, the
seller may not collect the 6PPD mitigation fee from the buyer, charge it as a separate line item at
the point of sale, or display the fee on a receipt provided to a customer.

So they just add $5 to the price of a tire.

 

[praveen]

So they just add $5 to the price of a tire.

So, there’s already a $5 effective from this year and this is another $6 starting from 2027.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I am fortunate to live in Texas, which is about as “Red” as a State can get once you get out of inner Houston and Austin city limits.

Like many, I have mixed feelings concerning the NRA. The policy for years was give no quarter when it came to 2d Amendment Rights. The attitude was, “never let the camel get its nose under the tent”. Because they understood that the aim of the Anti-Gun crowd as total confiscation and finally a ban, not regulation.

In the mean time, it became a cash cow for “those in charge”. Or at least that is the perception that many members have. They appear to be like one of those huge charities where 10% of the money goes to the cause and the rest is absorbed into those infamous “administrative costs”.

I am in a wait and see attitude. I’m trying not to be a cynic.

 

[GetReal]

I had forgotten this , but it is actually a little bit misleading to give the NRA credit for the Heller decision. In reality, the NRA only jumped on board once it was fairly certain Heller was going to go our way. That's Not really leadership , that's jumping on the bandwagon. Others actually spearheaded the movement on heller , and deserve the greater part of the credit. Read here:

 

[Syncrowave]

Say What? Define "benefit". As I stated above, my rights are being violated at a level never imagined.

Look, I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but the fact is that there is no organization on the face of the earth that has done more to benefit the Second Amendment rights of ALL Americans -- in blue states as well as in red -- than the NRA.

Every year, the NRA and NRA-certified instructors train something on the order of 1 million Americans -- from police to kids -- on how to safely own and effectively use firearms for all lawful purposes. That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

The NRA Foundation makes grants all across the country, every year, to pay for hunter safety training, youth marksmanship training, personal safety training for women, etc etc etc. That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

They have a program in schools across the country to teach kids that real guns aren't toys. I think I read that something like 25 million schoolkids have been trained through the program. And over the past century in the US, while the population has grown fivefold and the "population" of guns has increased by something like tenfold, the number of accidental firearm fatalities has fallen to all-time record lows both in sheer numbers and per-capita. Per-capita, I think the accidental firearm fatality rate has fallen by over 90% in the past century:

https://www.nraila.org/media/2932/accident-facts-january-2022.pdf

That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

Yeah, they fight in courts with "friend of the court" briefings, and in Congress and in state legislatures to fight bad bills and promote good bills, and in elections to support pro-gun leaders and defeat anti-gun politicians. But that stuff -- the legislative, lobbying and electoral activities -- accounts for less than half of what they do in terms of money spent.

The vast majority of what they do involves stuff you never hear much about, but which revolves around ensuring that a) Americans have the right and ability to own, carry and use guns; b) making sure they do so safely; c) promoting the shooting sports as the wholesome activity that it is; and d) doing whatever it can to ensure that future generations of Americans enjoy the same blessings of that freedom that we've enjoyed.

To say that all of these activities in aggregate -- and a lot more that I'm not thinking of right now -- don't benefit you, whether you live in a blue state, a red state, a purple state or a polka-dot state, is either intellectually dishonest or just plain dense.

The only people who could state that blue states have benefited are those who support disarmament of the population.

Thanks for the swipe, but no, I don't "support disarmament of the population."

 

[urbanrifleman]

Reading this thread I wonder which NRA people are talking about. They certainly aren't talking about the NRA of today. Maybe they are talking about the NRA going back to the 1990s or before, something like that. The NRA as far as I can see hasn't done anything significant within the government to stem the tide of the collapse of the second amendment in the 21st century. Maybe time was spent arguing over bump stocks and silliness like that, but no real effort has been made to challenge the very twisting of the Constitution.

I think people are talking about an NRA that used to exist. Which is really not relevant to today.

What that organization did in the past,or didn't do in the past, is just history at this point. Because it has nothing to do with what's happening today. The organization that exists today is wholly ineffective (especially for the level of money that's been pumped into it). The NRA has been corrupted and infiltrated, that seems pretty obvious to me. As all of the patriot and malitia movements were completely infiltrated and destroyed. The way the Tea Party was infiltrated and destroyed. In fact, now that I think about it the infiltration of the NRA is very similar to what happened to the Tea Party.

I think a better conversation at this point would be to look at who did infiltrate the right wing and destroy it. Instead of talking about how it's not destroyed (since clearly all of this is a mere shell of what it was 30 years ago). If we were to look at specifically who were the people who have done this to us.... I think that would effort well spent.

 

[GetReal]

^^^^^^^^ exactly right.

By their own admission , the NRA doesn't do competitions or marksmanship training or safety training or clubs and organizations well.

And the last 15+ years of the blue states proves NRA doesn't do firearms advocacy well.

That's a pretty poor record for an organization that has been given upwards of 2.5 billion dollars. The proven embezzlement and financial fraud is - at best - salt in the wound.

 

[urbanrifleman]

^^^^^^^^ exactly right.

By their own admission , the NRA doesn't do competitions or marksmanship training or safety training or clubs and organizations well.

And the last 15+ years of the blue states proves NRA doesn't do firearms advocacy well.

That's a pretty poor record for an organization that has been given upwards of 2.5 billion dollars. The proven embezzlement and financial fraud is - at best - salt in the would

Its an interesting phenomenon. There is a lot of talk about history like it's still happening today, and yet people's memories are so short they don't remember what happened a month ago.

 

[GetReal]

Even Heller (2008), *really* is more to others credit as the NRA originally opposed the case even coming before SCOTUS.

Its unsettling to have long- held thinking and beliefs challenged, but even the NRAs claimed greatest victory is really more due to the vision, courage and leadership of other people.

Vision, courage and leadership rarely come from people with a lot of money because they're too focused on preserving and protecting their money.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Look, I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but the fact is that there is no organization on the face of the earth that has done more to benefit the Second Amendment rights of ALL Americans -- in blue states as well as in red -- than the NRA.

Every year, the NRA and NRA-certified instructors train something on the order of 1 million Americans -- from police to kids -- on how to safely own and effectively use firearms for all lawful purposes. That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

The NRA Foundation makes grants all across the country, every year, to pay for hunter safety training, youth marksmanship training, personal safety training for women, etc etc etc. That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

They have a program in schools across the country to teach kids that real guns aren't toys. I think I read that something like 25 million schoolkids have been trained through the program. And over the past century in the US, while the population has grown fivefold and the "population" of guns has increased by something like tenfold, the number of accidental firearm fatalities has fallen to all-time record lows both in sheer numbers and per-capita. Per-capita, I think the accidental firearm fatality rate has fallen by over 90% in the past century:

Sorry mate but I don't consider the loss of my rights under 2A a benefit when the money I gave them was supposed to go to protection of those rights. How many of those "the sky is falling" mailings and emails have you received over the years telling you that if you don't give them money your rights will be lost. Well guess what, they are lost in my state and I am done with the NRA. The NRA will have no one to represent in the near future if they don't spend every dime they get on lawsuits against these transgressions.

https://www.nraila.org/media/2932/accident-facts-january-2022.pdf

That benefits your rights -- in blue states as well as red states.

Yeah, they fight in courts with "friend of the court" briefings, and in Congress and in state legislatures to fight bad bills and promote good bills, and in elections to support pro-gun leaders and defeat anti-gun politicians. But that stuff -- the legislative, lobbying and electoral activities -- accounts for less than half of what they do in terms of money spent.

The vast majority of what they do involves stuff you never hear much about, but which revolves around ensuring that a) Americans have the right and ability to own, carry and use guns; b) making sure they do so safely; c) promoting the shooting sports as the wholesome activity that it is; and d) doing whatever it can to ensure that future generations of Americans enjoy the same blessings of that freedom that we've enjoyed.

To say that all of these activities in aggregate -- and a lot more that I'm not thinking of right now -- don't benefit you, whether you live in a blue state, a red state, a purple state or a polka-dot state, is either intellectually dishonest or just plain dense.

Do you know why you never hear about what they do? Because they never do anything but solicit more money from you.. Hence the loss of rights across the nation. Every penny they spend that does not involve filing lawsuits in states were rights have been infringed is a penny wasted. You will not believe it until your rights are infringed they way our rights in blue states are. As people bail out of blue states and into red states the blue wave spreads. Just ask the residents of Boise Idaho and Bozeman Montana. Coming to a city near you,

 

[GetReal]

I live in a red state in no small part Because the NRA completely and totally abandoned Connecticut. And I have many friends that still live behind the soviet union iron curtain. They've got generational family farms and homes and property they can't just leave.

AND PLEASE DON'T BRING UP THEM SPENDING MONEY IN CONNECTICUT.... AS THEY GOT ZERO RESULTS.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I live in a red state in no small part Because the NRA completely and totally abandoned Connecticut. And I have many friends that still live behind the soviet iron curtain. They've got generational family farms and homes and property they can't just leave.

AND PLEASE DON'T BRING UP THEM SPENDING MONEY IN CONNECTICUT.... AS THEY GOT ZERO RESULTS.

Testify brother! I have generational ties to my area but they are not sufficient to keep me from getting the hell out. The trouble is that the volume of like minded people is so great that property values in my chosen destination have become higher than in my area even though the number of houses being built there exceeds any area I've been in over the last decade and that is a lot of areas. I keep looking though.

 

[D Coots]

Just spoke with a guy I know that is with the Iowa Firearms Coalition. The IFC has been instrumental here on gun rights and has accomplished much. He was at the NRA board meeting last month and is on a couple of committees and spoke highly of the new NRA 2.0 He agreed that a 75-member board is unwieldy. He also said that in the past the NRA was very helpful with people and resources in helping the IFC with political issues. As far as money to help he said..."not enough". He thought the main problem in the past was WLP and the lawyers. He was not impressed as far at the pace things move today.

I asked who he was voting for and he said:

Mark Vaughn
Jim Wallace
Amanda Suffercool
Amy Lovato
Charlie Hiltunem

I was not going to vote but I trust this guy's judgement and will.


Later

Dave

 

[urbanrifleman]

The left wing causes are fully funded by billionaires and trillionaires. If a single billionaire took up the cause of fighting for gun rights, a hundred lawyers and a hundred lobbyists could be fully funded.

Yet, the billionaire class is wholly left wing and anti gun. Like 100 percent. Maybe our problem isn't the NRA. Maybe it's that our true rulers don't want there to be a Constitution. Or an armed public, so they spend all of their vast resources fighting against these causes. And never for these causes. Maybe we have a billionaire issue.

 

[houligan]

Lets keep this NON-POLITICAL!

 

[GetReal]

Lets keep this NON-POLITICAL!

Yes, please.

I mostly want to know people's experiences as far as the NRA and their sponsorship of competitions, or any safety training or marksmanship training they do in your community or what benefits your local club or shooting range receive from the NRA. Thus far , I haven't seen much of any activity in those areas and what has been recorded here is not positive.

NRA ILA is the political wing of the NRA and is not the information I am looking for , and I believe that discussion is disallowed by foreign policy

 

[D Coots]

GetReal said

"Thus far, I haven't seen much of any activity in those areas and what has been recorded here is not positive."

See post 94. The new NRA 2.0 is about of what you speak and is happening as told by a person that was at last month's NRA board meeting.

I believe that is clear.

They still have to build my trust back.

Later

Dave