Some basic questions about loading for break action 35 Whelen

[dwizum]

Hi everyone,

I have some basic experience with reloading for bolt action rifles. I just bought myself a CVA Scout in 35 Whelen as a Christmas present. I'm going to be using this for deer and maybe some other medium or larger game down the road.

Because ammo selection is hard to come by locally, I've decided to hand load everything I shoot in this gun. I've bought some Hornady brass, Sierra gaming 225 gr bullets, and I have a few powders and primers on hand already that should be OK.

Anyways, I have a few basic questions, since this is my first time loading from new brass (versus reloading brass from commercial ammo) and my first time loading for a break action rifle. Please bear with me if these questions are basic, I'm pretty new at this stuff.

1) Considering I'm using brand new brass, should I expect to have to do any sizing or other brass work before loading and firing the first time? Should I wait until the brass has been fired in my rifle before I get serious about fine tuning a load?

2) I've bought both a full length sizing die and a neck sizing die. I'm used to the idea of setting headspace on a bolt action rifle. How does that transfer to a break action like the CVA? How do I know if headspace is correct, and should I expect to use the full length die or the neck die or both?

3) Given I have no magazine size to limit cartridge overall length, how do I determine ideal depth for this bullet with my rifle? Should I plan on seating so the bullet is just touching the rifling or should I expect to start there and work my way back to potentially find some better spot with some jump? Something else?

Thanks everyone and merry Christmas.

 

[dwizum]

Bonus question - what pressure signs should I look for in a break action vs bolt action?

 

[RegionRat]

1) Considering I'm using brand new brass, should I expect to have to do any sizing or other brass work before loading and firing the first time? Should I wait until the brass has been fired in my rifle before I get serious about fine tuning a load?

Yes. Shipping and handling can damage the brass, and it may or may not "require" sizing, but the main concept is that you want to test that brass in the chamber before you do anything to make sure the chamber will close. Also, to measure your headspace using a gage or the brass to have a way to set your process.

ETA: Only some of these rifles shoot tight enough to detect the difference between virgin case volume versus fire formed case volume. Some of this is just the luck of the difference between them, and finding a rifle that can be shot that tight.

When these guns are mentioned, their weight versus the recoil with a Whelen is something that must be understood by experience. They require recoil control to shoot well enough to be picky.

2) I've bought both a full length sizing die and a neck sizing die. I'm used to the idea of setting headspace on a bolt action rifle. How does that transfer to a break action like the CVA? How do I know if headspace is correct, and should I expect to use the full length die or the neck die or both?

Yes, if you get it right the action closes and no trouble with extraction, get it wrong and the opposite.

Best to have a really good idea of the actual headspace. The tape on the back of the case method is good enough.

3) Given I have no magazine size to limit cartridge overall length, how do I determine ideal depth for this bullet with my rifle? Should I plan on seating so the bullet is just touching the rifling or should I expect to start there and work my way back to potentially find some better spot with some jump? Something else?

Start out at the standard length for magazine or SAAMI and then in parallel measure the distance for your favorite bullets to the lands and go from there. Don't jump ahead too fast. This is a game-thumper and many times the goal is reliability of feed and extraction as the priority, and then any extra accuracy you can get. These are not match guns, they are meant for field carry.

Many of these are capable of sub 2" groups at 100 yards, and I have seen a few that go under 1", with factory ammo. For a lightweight gun with heavy recoil, that is as good as it gets, so you may not need to play with seating depth at all.

Best to give it a run with some factory ammo in a load that makes you happy and then try to close that as a starting point and then worry about fine tuning. You may find you don't need to get picky about load tuning when the challenge with these is your shooting form from field positions.

In for the range reports. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[RegionRat]

Bonus question - what pressure signs should I look for in a break action vs bolt action?

Use a chronograph and keep the speed under control so that the pressure will follow.

 

[Hino895]

You're starting out with the best 35 Whelen bullet available, that's a plus.
I found Winchester 760 worked best for me.

 

[dwizum]

Yes. Shipping and handling can damage the brass, and it may or may not "require" sizing, but the main concept is that you want to test that brass in the chamber before you do anything to make sure the chamber will close. Also, to measure your headspace using a gage or the brass to have a way to set your process.

ETA: Only some of these rifles shoot tight enough to detect the difference between virgin case volume versus fire formed case volume. Some of this is just the luck of the difference between them, and finding a rifle that can be shot that tight.

When these guns are mentioned, their weight versus the recoil with a Whelen is something that must be understood by experience. They require recoil control to shoot well enough to be picky.


Yes, if you get it right the action closes and no trouble with extraction, get it wrong and the opposite.

Best to have a really good idea of the actual headspace. The tape on the back of the case method is good enough.


Start out at the standard length for magazine or SAAMI and then in parallel measure the distance for your favorite bullets to the lands and go from there. Don't jump ahead too fast. This is a game-thumper and many times the goal is reliability of feed and extraction as the priority, and then any extra accuracy you can get. These are not match guns, they are meant for field carry.

Many of these are capable of sub 2" groups at 100 yards, and I have seen a few that go under 1", with factory ammo. For a lightweight gun with heavy recoil, that is as good as it gets, so you may not need to play with seating depth at all.

Best to give it a run with some factory ammo in a load that makes you happy and then try to close that as a starting point and then worry about fine tuning. You may find you don't need to get picky about load tuning when the challenge with these is your shooting form from field positions.

In for the range reports. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Yeah, I'm not super interested in ultimate accuracy, just really looking for repeatability and reliability from beginning to end, in a simple field gun. And, honestly, enjoyment of the loading process and knowing what's going in the gun. I don't own anything else this powerful so the recoil will be an adjustment, but that was somewhat on purpose as a way to stretch my experience. I have a couple places I hunt that range from dense woods to 300 yard field shots so I'm hoping this gun will cover it all, be easy to carry, and be reliably weatherproof. I don't have anything else right now that's good at all those scenarios.

 

[ISS]

Ammojo member here can supply you with ammunition. I bought a Ruger 35 Whelen Alaskan model carbine from him and got two boxes of Remington 200gr soft points at a good price.

 

[chop house]

@dwizum :

" And, honestly, enjoyment of the loading process and knowing what's going in the gun. "

 

[TC260]

I don't own anything else this powerful so the recoil will be an adjustment, but that was somewhat on purpose as a way to stretch my experience. I have a couple places I hunt that range from dense woods to 300 yard field shots so I'm hoping this gun will cover it all, be easy to carry, and be reliably weatherproof.

I hunt in very dense vegetation, basically it's covered thick with Palmettos. The CVA 35 Whelens are very popular with the locals because they fit the PW regs for one but they also anchor deer very well. 35 is a good hunting caliber within its effective range.

I'll second RegionRat's advice to use a chrono and stick to book loads/velocities. Modern break actions aren't weak per se but they're not robust bolt actions. If you're getting sticky extraction and other pressure signs you're well past where you should've stopped IMO.