SCHOOL ME --OPEN SIGHTS--IN COMPETITION

[dusterdave173]

Ok two local clubs will have Vintage / open sight class next year
I wanted to branch out from my ARA factory class and have more opportunities to shoot in competition
I got a nice Remington 40x with Redfield International rear and Olympic front sight--I have found my way to Champions Choice and replaced the metal insert with a clear Anschutz disc with the black ring insert--It looks great and I have shot a few A23 targets --all seems OK
But..I see Lots of other items like "eagle eyes", diopters. variable iris, etc
Question Is my basic set up good to go or how can I improve on it? I picked a 3.0 and 3.2 insert and so far they both seem to work well--they are sharp but target is a tad fuzzy---the rear aperture just "goes away" I don't even know its there --no doubt the factory one I don't know the size of the hole but it is pretty small
I am struggling a little between using my glasses or not--about a draw but have been using my glasses for the most part with the little practice I have had--seems like that is the way I will wind up--
Most guys at the clubs are just dabbling in the open sight deal--a few have been using the Anschutz clear with black ring inserts, a couple use the yellow disc but I see nobody using and adjustable apertures or other devices--It will eventually turn into an arms race and $$ spending contest. I just need a basic schooling about getting started right and what to look for and how to improve my initial set up
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chilly807]

If you want to get an early start on the "arms race", you won't go wrong with adjustable apertures on both ends of the rifle.

First I'd suggest making sure you can actually use aperture sights in your matches. "Open sights" aren't aperture sights, though both can be loosely termed as iron sights. To me, open sights are rear notch and front blade hunting sights.

For my front apertures, I went back to the steel Anschutz M18 apertures, I was getting too much glare from the clear acrylic ones. Probably just me.

An adjustable front aperture will allow you to fine tune the aperture to your target. Standard aperture targets will have an 8 moa black aiming point, regardless of distance. 8" at 100 yds, 4" at 50 yds, etc.

I find I do better with a larger front aperture than you've mentioned, 3.6 mm comes to mind. I'm assuming you're shooting prone or from a bench, if you're shooting standing or kneeling a 4.0 mm front aperture may be in order. Your eye will automatically center the aiming mark in the ring, so don't get too wrapped up in the small size apertures until you try the larger sizes. Easier on the eyes too.

A rear lens can help a lot, and an adjustable rear iris is almost a must depending on light conditions. I say almost, because a lot of guys have done fine with the regular old fixed rear aperture. My point is, you don't need to do that unless you have to for rules or financial restrictions. Once you go variable, you'll never go back.

Gehmann makes good, reasonably priced adjustable rear irises.

The Redfield rear sight isn't bad, but you'll like the Anschutz ones more, I have one made by Unique that's quite good also. Both will fit an 11mm dovetail, not sure what's on your 40X. Maybe drilled and tapped?

 

[jelenko]

Assuming you can use aperture sights,

An adjustable rear one can help with improving the clarity of the front sight and the target. It allows you to find the sweet spot for you.

As Chilly mentioned, you want a generous line of white around the black bull. Our eye/brain uses the white around the black bull as information to center the bull in the aperture. If the line of white is too small, there's not enough information. AND we overhold trying to get it perfectly centered.

 

[dusterdave173]

Man! Thanks guys!! That is exactly what I needed--Yes we can shoot aperture sights--that is what I meant just used wrong nomenclature--thats how green I am at this
We will always be at 50 and always from a bench I had my sights before I had my 40 x so I set them up on my CZ with a short barrel that may be why I thought the 3.0 and 3.2 looked ok--I get what you are saying and will try some larger ones I did like more white around the black bull but did not know how much was too much
Again--many thanks to the great gang on Accurate shooter!! You fellows have helped me come a Long Way in the last two years--I truly appreciate it--I know I have asked some dumb questions in the past but you don't know what you don't know--

Thanks fellows I mean it

 

[Jeff Porter]

If you are always shooting from the same bench on the same range at the same distance, you may get by OK with a fixed front aperture if you have one with enough line of white. As said, tighter is not better. An adjustable rear iris is helpful getting the front sight focused and sharp for your vision. Like adjusting the ocular on your scope to make the crosshairs sharp.

I prefer adjustable iris on both front and rear because I shoot from 50 yard Rimfire to 1000 yards Palma/Fullbore and need to be able to dial up the line of white for the conditions and range ( and target, small bore targets have more black than high power targets)

 

[Jeff Porter]

I may have an iron sight problem…

 

[kevin nevius]

Just a few comments......

Regarding the front aperture size - your brain wants to go very small / tight (a very thin line of white around the aiming black), but it doesn't work well unless you're an Owl! In testing, start large (for your sight radius, something like a 4.0), and work your way tighter in .2 increments (and yes, a complete set of plastic apertures is a cheap and great investment). The distance blurs the edges of the black, and if your aperture is tight enough to get in this diffusion zone your groups will get large fast. I am betting (again for your sight radius) something around a 3.6 / 3.8 will be optimal. You need some line of white in your sight picture, probably more than you think.

Eagle eyes are great (especially for us old guys), the lens magnifies the black, and slightly increases distortion.....so your aperture size needs to adjust to it. When I was shooting a sight radius similar to yours I had great eyesight and never used a lens, so I'm afraid I can't be of much assistance.

In all my years of shooting irons, my rear aperture setting was a 1.0 / 1.1. And most shooters stay around that. A rear aperture with color filters is REALLY nice though, although the aperture size stays constant the light does not - so a light / medium grey on bright days, and an orange / yellow for overcast conditions was a big help.

kev

 

[243winxb]

aperture sights-

The front sight used may depend on the targets. A round black bullseye for 50 yards, i used this front sight. I like to see some of the white paper , around the black bull.

Lyman sight

 

[dusterdave173]

Again Thanks so much guys this is JUST what I needed
I will be using a heavy barrel 40x B with factory barrel about 26-27 inch
Both clubs will be using the A23? I think black bull--always at 50 yds

 

[Chilly807]

That is about the same sight radius as my Anschutz. What you'll find is that the longer sight radius helps with keeping the front sight and target in focus more so than a short barrel.

A small rear aperture can increase your depth of field, but you also have to get enough light reaching your eye. It's a balancing act.

I'd highly recommend using a blinder on your non-dominant eye. It'll allow you to keep that eye open, which reduces eye strain. I've seen some that attach to the brim of a hat, others go over the eyepiece of the rear sight.

Accuracy will be very good, aperture shooters don't give up much to the F-class rifles in that dept.

 

[243winxb]

No expert here, but it seems the face, on stock, should be as close to the same position, for each shot?

Forward or back, changes bullet impact on target?

 

[Stumpy1]

I may have an iron sight problem…

Jeff, the only problem I see is that you don't have enough of them

Frank

 

[js2013]

I may have an iron sight problem…

Seems to be a fading art. Not as many of us left compared to the “old” days LOL
Thank goodness for Palma and smallbore.

 

[patriot54]

I love shooting Irons, particularly offhand. Its useful to be able to adjust iris openings as light conditions vary. You might also consider using shooting frames and having an optician make a lens that allows your eye to balance the focus between the front sight and the target where it will remain relaxed; closer to the front sight. If you wear regular glasses its unlikely the optical correction will be centered with the sights. Otherwise your eyes may tire and blur late in the match. I have a set of test lenses that help find that focal point.

Also, use a light color blinder on your non-shooting eye. Otherwise your aiming eye may have a sympathetic response to the dark blinder and over dilate.

When I use too little white around the bullseye, my brain is constantly trying to equal it out. With more white my brain is just looking for a centered image.

Everyone's eyes are different. I never found a rear filter very useful, but when shooting at a north target with a low winter sun glare became a huge problem. A front sight filter with the center bored out solved the issue.

 

[Alan Warner]

I may have an iron sight problem…

Sights look fine, bolt is
on the wrong side

 

[Albany Mountain]

You are well armed with a decent front 18mm sight with apertures and a good rear sight with an adjustable iris, maybe filters. The match is won by the guy putting shots in the middle versus the one that sees the best. Eagle eyes can enhance and adjustable aperture fronts make it easier but focus on the front sight, have some good centered line of white and a good trigger squeeze and you can get the same results.
If offhand is part of the game, focus on that by practicing 80% of the time or more in that position.

 

[dusterdave173]

Well finally got a day on the bench with my fresh bought 40X 22LR with Redfield aperture sights--I have never shot these kind of sights in my life--started with a 3.0 aperture in front then went with a 3.2 and have a 3.4 and an adjustable rear iris on the way--So this target is with less than 80 rounds ever on this rifle and sight set up--I have a LONG LONG way to go but feel like I got off to a decent start.
The funny thing is the item I like the best so far is the $9 Amazon adapter that lets me attach my I phone to my spotting scope--I can simply look up at the screen and see my hits..That one item is a game changer vs looking through the eye piece every shot--a BIG help.
The rifle slugged like a marble going down a drain pipe until right at the muzzle--it is the loosest bore I have ever checked but...with a couple of lots of Lapua it put them in one small hole with a scope on the rifle--it will work fine with the right lots but many it just sprayed--overall I am Very happy with the rifle itself--
I now need to practice and learn how to shoot these sights. So far I really like them--a new challenge for Sure!
A big Thanks to all that have offered help!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jelenko]

That target looks like you shot all but two from three different head positions.

 

[dusterdave173]

That target looks like you shot all but two from three different head positions.

BINGO! You are exactly right! I was moving closer then further from the rear sight seeing what difference it made to my sight picture
Thanks!

 

[jelenko]

What looks like 'center' will vary depending on exactly where the eye is in relation to the rear sight.

A tell tale sign is if any part of the rear aperture looks a little flat/not 100% round - unless, of course, it always looks that way. Consistency is king.