Misfire, need help troubleshooting

[hoz53]

Thanks for all the input.....I appreciate it!
I've always gone on the principle I learned from the Cat In The Hat, "to find out what/where something is you must first find out what/where it isn't" same principle goes in electrical troubleshooting. So I will list all the things that have been suggested that it "isn't".

Weak firing pin spring: The spring was replaces as was the firing pin when it was re-barreled, Kampfeld replaced all that so I could get rid of the stupid J-lock on the bolt shroud.

Dirty gunked up bolt: I has only seen maybe 20 shots since rebuilt by Kampfeld.

Left old primer in case because I didn't resize: The cases were factory new so never had an old primer, I ran them all through a resize die but definitely could have missed one and never knew it because it didn't have a primer to knock out. However its very possible I missed this one on resizing and that would explain the loose neck.

Flash hole was blocked or no flash hole: I did use a flash hole deburring tool on all the new cases making sure they were all clean but there is a good I could have missed this one deburring and also resizing if it had been stuck under flap in the box. I'm thinking the flash hole was clear because looking in the case with a bore light I see soot and burn residue just like a fired case looks. Possible I missed the deburring process and it could have been blocked/partially blocked.

Primer not seated properly: Possible but there's a good firing pin dent in it.

Leftover lube in the case: Possible. I resized using Hornady one-shot and they say it will not contaminate primers or powder. However I always wash my cases with Dawn and water, rinse well and dry out in oven. Plus it was a couple weeks after this washing process that I loaded.

Loaded a case with a spent primer: Possible but I think I would have noticed that. And where did this case come from as I was working out of a new box of brass.

My 40 year luck of reloading without incident ran out: Yep

Possibly two different problems: Definitely the loose neck and misfire are different issues.

Here's a pic of the failed primer

Thanks

with my 6br this last year ive had some cases that i bumped the shoulder to far back and they did not fire because the firing pin pushed the case ahead in the chamber instead of all its energy going to the primer strike. some fired some didnt. with new brass the shoulder very well could be back far enough this is happening. if you have some of the new brass left you could check compared to fired with a bump gage. the pic you show the primer strike doesnt look to good so this could be the problem.

 

[LCazador]

Thanks for all the input.....I appreciate it!
I've always gone on the principle I learned from the Cat In The Hat, "to find out what/where something is you must first find out what/where it isn't" same principle goes in electrical troubleshooting. So I will list all the things that have been suggested that it "isn't".

Weak firing pin spring: The spring was replaces as was the firing pin when it was re-barreled, Kampfeld replaced all that so I could get rid of the stupid J-lock on the bolt shroud.

Dirty gunked up bolt: I has only seen maybe 20 shots since rebuilt by Kampfeld.

Left old primer in case because I didn't resize: The cases were factory new so never had an old primer, I ran them all through a resize die but definitely could have missed one and never knew it because it didn't have a primer to knock out. However its very possible I missed this one on resizing and that would explain the loose neck.

Flash hole was blocked or no flash hole: I did use a flash hole deburring tool on all the new cases making sure they were all clean but there is a good I could have missed this one deburring and also resizing if it had been stuck under flap in the box. I'm thinking the flash hole was clear because looking in the case with a bore light I see soot and burn residue just like a fired case looks. Possible I missed the deburring process and it could have been blocked/partially blocked.

Primer not seated properly: Possible but there's a good firing pin dent in it.

Leftover lube in the case: Possible. I resized using Hornady one-shot and they say it will not contaminate primers or powder. However I always wash my cases with Dawn and water, rinse well and dry out in oven. Plus it was a couple weeks after this washing process that I loaded.

Loaded a case with a spent primer: Possible but I think I would have noticed that. And where did this case come from as I was working out of a new box of brass.

My 40 year luck of reloading without incident ran out: Yep

Possibly two different problems: Definitely the loose neck and misfire are different issues.

Here's a pic of the failed primer

Thanks

I believe the cases are too short for your chamber. A short case is driven forward by the firing pin strike and the forward motion softens the firing pin strike. Fire form cases first with bullets seated into the lands. Use a moderate load to do so. Don't start load development until you have fire formed cases and then don't mix cases from the two rifles. The bullet in that load that had light seating force probably was driven forward and with no bullet contact on the lands it softened the firing blow enough to cause no ignition.

 

[DShortt]

Measure a few of the new, unfired cases. A few unfired, resized cases. The 2 that did fire and the case that would nor fire.
Base to datum line, or whatever the comparator you have is. Just make sure it's close to midway on the shoulder.
That will either confirm or disprove the case length possibly.
You apparently did not resize it. Resizing *might* actually be making the datum to base measurement longer. I've noticed it myself depending on the sizing die set-up.
This is probably exactly what happened.

 

[M-61]

the firing pin pushed the case ahead in the chamber instead of all its energy going to the primer strike

No. If you want to number jobs, the first thing a firing pin does is push the case forward, in the case of a rimless case to the datum line. Then in a nano second ignites the primer. But if indeed you decided to bump the shoulder back you certainly could have gone too far. Bumping shoulders is a corrective measure for a particular case, not a ‘step’ in reloading.
Like everything I write it’s my opinion in my experience with my bolt action rimless cases. Additionally I cycle every round I reload at my reloading bench In my shop. And I no longer compete. I shoot solely for my enjoyment at 100 yards.
Nothing I write is written as instructions.

 

[Doom]

Based on what the OP has said I believe you are down to three possibilities:

1) Reloaded a fired case. Otherwise how do you explain insufficient bullet tension?
2) Primer lacked sufficient mix to set off powder.
3) Primer was not seated sufficiently to push the anvil into the primer pellet.

I doubt that it is a firing pin spring issue with that depth of penetration. Probably not a headspace issue as that tends to leave light strikes.

 

[hoz53]

No. If you want to number jobs, the first thing a firing pin does is push the case forward, in the case of a rimless case to the datum line. Then in a nano second ignites the primer. But if indeed you decided to bump the shoulder back you certainly could have gone too far. Bumping shoulders is a corrective measure for a particular case, not a ‘step’ in reloading.
Like everything I write it’s my opinion in my experience with my bolt action rimless cases. Additionally I cycle every round I reload at my reloading bench In my shop. And I no longer compete. I shoot solely for my enjoyment at 100 yards.
Nothing I write is written as instructions.

you quoted part of my post and said that is not what happens and in your next sentance you write that is what happens Also i am not the OP and I didnt want to number anything. you sure didnt help the OP with the above post

 

[AZmark]

Based on what the OP has said I believe you are down to three possibilities:

1) Reloaded a fired case. Otherwise how do you explain insufficient bullet tension?
2) Primer lacked sufficient mix to set off powder.
3) Primer was not seated sufficiently to push the anvil into the primer pellet.

I doubt that it is a firing pin spring issue with that depth of penetration. Probably not a headspace issue as that tends to leave light strikes.

Well the one thing I can tell you for sure is #1 is not the case, that I'm 100% sure of. The lot of cases I was using to start the load development for these 2 rifles was brand new out of the box brass. I had no fired cases out on my bench as I haven't prepped any fired cases in probably a couple years or more and I keep my loading bench clear of anything not needed for loading what is at hand. That leaves #2 and 3.

As far as #2. These are Federal Premium Match primers G210. Of course the fact that they're match grade doesn't mean anything, that depends on QC.

#3 is possible. But I have short seated primers before and I usually notice as I pull it out of the shell holder as I inspect every seating. I do this because of a friends mistake when loading years ago. The story goes, we were out elk hunting and he had some reloads he had put together in a hurry, he found one that he couldn't close the bolt on and we found the primer was not even flush with the flat edge of the case, looking through all his reloads we found several like this.

But is #3 possible if the primer pocket dimensions are off?

 

[Schippergreg]

Primer not seated to bottom of primer pocket sounds to be the most likely scenario. If it wasn’t for brand new brass that didn’t get sized I’d say the shoulder was bumped too much.

 

[hoz53]

Well the one thing I can tell you for sure is #1 is not the case, that I'm 100% sure of. The lot of cases I was using to start the load development for these 2 rifles was brand new out of the box brass. I had no fired cases out on my bench as I haven't prepped any fired cases in probably a couple years or more and I keep my loading bench clear of anything not needed for loading what is at hand. That leaves #2 and 3.

As far as #2. These are Federal Premium Match primers G210. Of course the fact that they're match grade doesn't mean anything, that depends on QC.

#3 is possible. But I have short seated primers before and I usually notice as I pull it out of the shell holder as I inspect every seating. I do this because of a friends mistake when loading years ago. The story goes, we were out elk hunting and he had some reloads he had put together in a hurry, he found one that he couldn't close the bolt on and we found the primer was not even flush with the flat edge of the case, looking through all his reloads we found several like this.

But is #3 possible if the primer pocket dimensions are off?

its more than likely #4- what cazador posted in #22

 

[Doom]

its more than likely #4- what cazador posted in #22

Should be easy to check. I had assumed since they were resized that was checked.

 

[M-61]

you quoted part of my post and said that is not what happens and in your next sentance you write that is what happens Also i am not the OP and I didnt want to number anything. you sure didnt help the OP with the above post

Re-read what I wrote. What you said was the firing pins entire job. It’s not.
Commented on your post only is why I quoted it. I was unaware replies could only be to the OP

 

[hoz53]

Re-read what I wrote. What you said was the firing pins entire job. It’s not.
Commented on your post only is why I quoted it. I was unaware replies could only be to the OP

its hard for anyone to comprehend you here. mabie you misunderstood my post- i dont know but i do know what i posted was correct.

 

[jwv2001]

Bad primer. Period

 

[hoz53]

Should be easy to check. I had assumed since they were resized that was checked.

would be easy to check especially if a person has a bump gage. i dunno if OP checked that but it sure sounds like wat happened to me earlier this year.

 

[AZmark]

Bad primer. Period

The primer did ignite because if find the soot inside the case around the primer area and the whole inside of the case has soot on the sides. However I did measure the powder charge and it was the same as I had loaded and looked ok.
So you're saying the even though it ignited it was not hot enough to ignite the powder? It just blew soot?

 

[DShortt]

The primer did ignite because if find the soot inside the case around the primer area and the whole inside of the case has soot on the sides. However I did measure the powder charge and it was the same as I had loaded and looked ok.
So you're saying the even though it ignited it was not hot enough to ignite the powder? It just blew soot?

Perhaps it's just me, but some things just don't add up.
You state it was new brass, but the bullet tension was way too low, but you resized it.
The round did not fire, but the inside of the case is sooty, yet the powder failed to ignite.
Something in these details is wrong.
None of us will ever know what because we were not there.

 

[Doom]

There have been situations where primers have gone off and only a portion of the powder partially combusted leaving a discolored residue. If you are certain that the primer went off, then most likely the primer is at fault unless the powder is degraded in some way or the flash hole was blocked in some manner.

Unfortunately primer production is a very high volume process and as with any manufacturing process there are going to be components that don't meet specifications and slip through QC. If you put it in perspective, if in a 5000 primer case the primers are 99.9% good there could be 5 bad primers in the case.

One thing I have always done with rounds that do not fire is to examine the primer to determine whether it appears to be a light or a good strike, then rechamber and shoot again. In my case (shooting and reloading for 16 years) I have always had the second strike fire the round. In most cases I find good strikes that don't fire initially which I attribute to not setting the anvil properly.

 

[AZmark]

Perhaps it's just me, but some things just don't add up.
You state it was new brass, but the bullet tension was way too low, but you resized it.
The round did not fire, but the inside of the case is sooty, yet the powder failed to ignite.
Something in these details is wrong.
None of us will ever know what because we were not there.

You've got it all right but I'm thinking that I missed resizing this one due to the neck tension and neck measurement at .311 when all others are .309 after firing, or maybe I was distracted and didn't push it all the way into the resizing die. I'm going to be resizing some more cases soon and going to experiment with that possibility.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I've had the same thing with the shoulder bumped back to far. But the neck thing , no clue. But I have had some new brass that was not right at all before, so anything could happen. Once I pushed the shoulders way to far back on some, and was lucky they did not go off, from what I have read.

 

[M-61]

its hard for anyone to comprehend you here. mabie you misunderstood my post- i dont know but i do know what i posted was correct.

Since you know what you wrote was correct (which does not mean what I wrote was incorrect) and you state what I wrote was incomprehensible to anyone, the solution is simple. Just block me.