Misfire on new rifle

[dgeesaman]

Interesting. Are you saying a primer with poor ignition and fail to fire will might contaminate the powder? Why are there only a couple of small clumps, the rest is I still normal looking. Non of the powder burned? Are the lumps at the front or back of the case? Your seating to 0.0025" depth, this is a problem. I think that as a first simple step he needs to seat the primer to the bottom of the pocket and make sure the powder looks normal and then see if the problem goes away. If this doesn't solve the problem it becomes much more difficult. My guess is that there is nothing wrong with the rifle. Just loading bad ammo. Did he find clumped powder when pulling bullets on cartridges that were loaded but never in the rifle? I fired several brands of non magnum primers in the winter for deer hunting. They all went off. The only primers I didn't have go off in 50 years were ones I seated just below the case head surface. They failed in the Summer.

I’m not the OP but I agree the primers need to be seated against the bottom of the primer pocket.

My Creedmoor experience was that the primer spark left some powder clumpy and the rest unburned. In my case the primers were not soft seated but I think it can all contribute here.

 

[Webster]

I've had 450 primer issues as well. 6x47 , two different ones and plenty of hit , but no bang. It's in 2 different lot numbers.

Bad primers doesn't explain clumping??? If you leave the clumps on a table top do they dry out and fall apart? Are the clumps sticky? You need to play detective and collect all the info you can even if most of it doesn't help solve the problem. Just saying the primer not going off and there is clumping isn't a good failure analysis.

 

[Ralph Littlefield]

Would a primer that was not fully seated partially ignite? I can see not igniting, but it seems that if the primer mixture was good the result of a partially seated primer would be go or no go, not something in between.

That being said, I agree that primers should be fully seated.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I think you CAN have something in between.
The crushing action of the cup against the anvil for a fully seated primer adequately struck will likely fire.
Reduce the force, either at the pin, or at the bottom of the pocket and the primer pellet may not fully fire.

Hangfires, no fires, weak fires (squibs) are the result. I call it Fizzle.
Discolored powder or clumps can be the result of not heating the first few kernals enough to start the FIRE.

When the primer is not fully seated the cup can dent and not crush the pellet, just break it up. Hiting it again might crush a pice of the broken pellet, or not.
Some powders are harder to ignite, sometimes requiring high charge density and magnum primers (CCI 450 is a Magnum primer) to be reliable. Especially in cold weather.
This is common in old surplus ammo where the powder has deteriorated, broken down or been contaminated.
In fresh reloads, if the primer is hit hard enough and seated to the bottom of the pocket, the force is adequate between the cup and anvil, and the powder is good, it will most likely fire.
Switching primers will probably not help. The CCI 450 cup is taller than most others and more likely to reach the bottom of a pocket when seated.

 

[SBS]

Would a primer that was not fully seated partially ignite? I can see not igniting, but it seems that if the primer mixture was good the result of a partially seated primer would be go or no go, not something in between.

That being said, I agree that primers should be fully seated.

Creighton Audette writing in the 1980 NRA National Championships Highpower Match Rifle Clinic: "Primer seating is important and lack of care in this operation results in erratic ignition, occasional misfires, wide variations in velocity and poor accuracy. Weak firing pin impact can also reduce accuracy." He also states that seated properly with some stress at the bottom, "causes the legs of the anvil to bottom in the primer pocket and forces the point of the anvil slightly into the priming mix. This stressing or compression of the primer pellet results in an increase in the sensitivity of the primer, more dependable and more uniform ignition, and consequently, in better accuracy. Test show that primers, so seated, will fire regularly with impact loads of about 50% less than primers where the anvil just touches the bottom of the pocket and the pellet is unstressed."
Just because a Primer ignites does not mean it produces the proper amount of brisance. Went through that several times with a weak firing pin spring and also bad primers. All primers went off in both instances and the bullets exited barrel. But velocities varied up to 200 fps in 5 rounds.
Mid Tompkins in the same publication as above says he ran a test using about 15-20 different lots of primers: "I tested them at 100 yards using a bench rest gun. They grouped anywhere from 1/4" to 2". The same bullet, same case, same powder charge were used; the only thing that varied was the primer. Primers can actually make that much difference." He went on to explain that you should test primers for the actual distance you wish to shoot, and concludes that primers account for 60% of accuracy. Says "Primers should be seated in the bottom of the primer pocket properly and firmly."

 

[243winxb]

Primer seating-
For many years i used the large seat plug on my RCBS press to seat small pistol primers in 38 special & 357 magnum. To lazy to keep switching after loading 45 acp & 44 mag.

The small pistol primers were flush with the case head. Mix of brands of brass & primers. NOT 1 MISFIRE.


Some Sako 38 brass has shallow pockets. I smashed primers into the cup with the RCBS Ram Prime. Not 1 misfire.

Did end up buying a Redding pocket uniformer, to correct the brass.

Slow pin velocity causes primers to misfire.

 

[Webster]

Would a primer that was not fully seated partially ignite? I can see not igniting, but it seems that if the primer mixture was good the result of a partially seated primer would be go or no go, not something in between.

That being said, I agree that primers should be fully seated.

Probably not related but about 7 years ago I had a hang fire. I pulled the trigger, click then 1 second later the rifle went off. Proved I didn't flinch. Don't know the mechanism. Sounds like the primer pellet was burning or glowing then it exploded? I have noticed when examining the back side of primers you can sometimes see poor quality. The foil is raised around the anvil, some of the primer charge is above the foil and discoloration of the anvils.

 

[Skunce]

I had the same problem during subfreezing weather in a 17/223 but with Tula primers and W748. Same everything with Varget shot fine. The W748 in the rounds that misfired was discolored a yellowish color and came out in clumps. The W748 was probably twenty plus years old.

 

[SBS]

I had the same problem during subfreezing weather in a 17/223 but with Tula primers and W748. Same everything with Varget shot fine. The W748 in the rounds that misfired was discolored a yellowish color and came out in clumps. The W748 was probably twenty plus years old.

748, being a ball powder, requires more fire than a stick powder generally. I have 748 older than that and it ignites just fine with Rem. 7 1/2's, regardless of weather. Doubt it is the 748 unless it had really turned bad. There have been some posts complaining about the Tula primers as they have aged.

 

[Turpentine]

Had a similar incident years ago with my 308 ammunition using BR2s. I changed out to a Grey Tan striker and heavier spring. Then I quit with my hand primer and went with the RCBS bench primer so I could seat the primers more firmly in the bottom of the cup. I have not had an issue since. I will admit however that I prefer Federal Primers.
I load a lot of shotgun ammunition and years ago tried some Noble Sport primers. I got FTF as high as 15 rounds per 100. I mentioned my trouble on a forum and got the standard ”I have loaded 1000s and never had a problem” to ”you must be a few fries shy of a happy meal response“. I offered to give the primers away to any takers. 2 or 3 guys bit. Within a week they were telling me they were having FTFs at the same rate and were disposing any of those primers that were left over and that the batch was bad.
What I would do in your case is to stop lubing your bullets. Though I doubt that is the cause of the failures. More than likely the issue is that you are not seating firmly to the bottom of the cup. Since I started this practice I have not had any issues. You might also switch to another primer type. If that is an option. Primers certainly don’t grow on trees today. Just to see if that makes a difference.
The other issue I have seen and it happened to me about 35 years ago was using too much lube on a lube pad. Just recently had a friend tell me he was having FTFs so I went over and checked out his process. His cases were heavily dented, 1st sign. The vent hole in his sizing die would ooze lube every time he sized a case, 2nd sign. Be careful with the amount of lube.
The only other case I ever had with FTFs were when I was new to ARs. I decided lighter springs might help with the god awful amount of trigger pull. What they did was cause FTFs. Geissele two stage triggers solved my trigger issues.

 

[WVRJ]

Problem will be with the primers.Try a different brand.I have a 223 bolt gun that I had used CCI BR-4's in for years.I finished off one brick of older primers and when I started on the next brick,I had a 15% failure to fire situation.I checked the firing pin and spring and it all looked good.Double checked everything and still had misfires.Installed a new pin and spring setup and still had a problem.Switched to some CCI 400's I had and no more misfires.Tried another lot of BR-4's and misfires came backTried some 450's and they worked just fine.Found some Federal GM Match and all is well.For whatever reason,it won't shoot reliably with BR-4's.In any of my other rifles,the BR4's are fine,it's just that one.

 

[Rsadams]

Firing pin protrusion and maybe cleaning the firing pin channel along with what could be a weak or broken firing pin spring.... Try imperial neck lube...

 

[Dave M.]

What's your case fill % ? Is it a starting load ? Have you tried a magnum primer ?

He is using a magnum primer.

By chance did you do any work on the primer pockets? Also, how were the primers installed? If they were not fully seated, this could explain what you saw.

 

[nmkid]

I also recently had problems with 450s. I was trying to fireform some cases and kept getting misfires. I gave up after 5-6 misfires. Went home pulled the bullets, dumped out the powder, of the rounds that didn't go off. Deprimed the cases and then used CCI SRP on the same cases, seated at the same depth, and every primer fired.

 

[rogina]

Bad primers doesn't explain clumping??? If you leave the clumps on a table top do they dry out and fall apart? Are the clumps sticky? You need to play detective and collect all the info you can even if most of it doesn't help solve the problem. Just saying the primer not going off and there is clumping isn't a good failure analysis.

???

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I thought I had 450 primer problems a couple years ago. Loaded new 204 R brass/new rifle had a couple ftf. Since I have only one 204r, I removed the "bad" primers and seated them in 223 brass to try in a proven rifle. They popped strong. Switched out the firing pin/spring no more ftf in the 204r.