shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
It is possible for almost any firearm to UD if certain factors are induced. Unfortunately, most of the time, the circumstance is "booger hook on the bang switch".
Facts RE SIG P320 Issues?
- Thread starter NorCalMikie
- Start date
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
hammer fired, music to my ears. I have looked at the FNs, seem to be pretty well made and no horrible news stories. they ain't cheap though.
Unintentional discharge is one thing un-commanded discharge is another.
With light clothing or as a pocket pistol I only carry a 9MM Makarov, the safety blocks the firing pin, locks the hammer and trigger. No unintentional discharge because of your keys or something else.
Pull, flip the safety and pull the trigger, bang!
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
That was the point I was making I thought.
The Sig seemingly has the later problem.
I don't know of any other poly-frame striker-fired pistol utilizing a fire control with the striker put in full cock by cycling the slide. It made for a very nice trigger pull but presented another issue.
Just an update, my club has put Banning the P320 on its board meeting agenda. There's a good deal of support for the ban.
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Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I have read real good things about that pistol. shit, now I will have to start looking at those. specific model you like?
Don't buy a Makarov, because of the collector interest they cost too much. I got mine for $85 years ago.
I was not happy when I found out it was a rework of the P250. Then further disapointed when the US Army did not even bother to follow it's own past testing program.
Then my oldest son who was int he US Army at the time purchased on and I got to tear into it. What I found was shocking to me. I am not in the Arms industry but have been into firearms since I was about 6 years old. Dad was a 23 year on Active Duty in the US Army. I rebarreled my first rifle in middle school, did tool and die in middle school, machine drawing and automotive technician aprentice in high school. Worked professionaly for a while then attended college for Aviation Technology, Material Science. Worked in heavy salavage then engineering departments in aviation, defense and automotive manufacturing.
machines are machines and engineering is engeering with a lot of crossover. I did not like the MIM parts but more importantly the fire control parts did not have a straight edge on anything. The MIM was purely excuted and you could see a total lack of quality control. Crooked edges, chips in mating surfaces, angle where they should not have been, splater and flash that had not been cleaned off of parts.
What defines modern machining more than any other single thing is surface finish capabilities! Reduction in tolerance stacking in key areas. Ability to actual maintain clearances and tolerances of the design engineer as indicated on the blue prints.
If you are going to use casting of any kind or MIM the intiial work to get the dies right and maintain is paramount. You have to have very good quality control. Important contact points have to be precision machined or hand fitted by primitive methods like hand stoning in a jig. They did none of this.
The amount of slop in the slide to FCU and frame was dreadful and when you pulled the trigger you could see the entire slide move up and down. I recomended he get rid of it ASAP. He did not listen at first and waited until the drop saftey issue presented itself then he listened to me.
I had a bad feeling that it would develop more issues over time. I never dreamed it would be as bad as it got though! I never thought we would have a Nambu Type 94 self firing handgun!!
Anyone familar with old die cast toys from the 1950's-1980's would be horrified to see that level of fit and finish inside of a modern handgun. It is always telling when the outside of a rifle or handgun is better finished than the insides. If the gun looked like it does on the inside on the outside no one would buy or pay what the retail price is because the insides looks like something Hipoint would make in terms of precision, fit and finish.
Then my oldest son who was int he US Army at the time purchased on and I got to tear into it. What I found was shocking to me. I am not in the Arms industry but have been into firearms since I was about 6 years old. Dad was a 23 year on Active Duty in the US Army. I rebarreled my first rifle in middle school, did tool and die in middle school, machine drawing and automotive technician aprentice in high school. Worked professionaly for a while then attended college for Aviation Technology, Material Science. Worked in heavy salavage then engineering departments in aviation, defense and automotive manufacturing.
machines are machines and engineering is engeering with a lot of crossover. I did not like the MIM parts but more importantly the fire control parts did not have a straight edge on anything. The MIM was purely excuted and you could see a total lack of quality control. Crooked edges, chips in mating surfaces, angle where they should not have been, splater and flash that had not been cleaned off of parts.
What defines modern machining more than any other single thing is surface finish capabilities! Reduction in tolerance stacking in key areas. Ability to actual maintain clearances and tolerances of the design engineer as indicated on the blue prints.
If you are going to use casting of any kind or MIM the intiial work to get the dies right and maintain is paramount. You have to have very good quality control. Important contact points have to be precision machined or hand fitted by primitive methods like hand stoning in a jig. They did none of this.
The amount of slop in the slide to FCU and frame was dreadful and when you pulled the trigger you could see the entire slide move up and down. I recomended he get rid of it ASAP. He did not listen at first and waited until the drop saftey issue presented itself then he listened to me.
I had a bad feeling that it would develop more issues over time. I never dreamed it would be as bad as it got though! I never thought we would have a Nambu Type 94 self firing handgun!!
Anyone familar with old die cast toys from the 1950's-1980's would be horrified to see that level of fit and finish inside of a modern handgun. It is always telling when the outside of a rifle or handgun is better finished than the insides. If the gun looked like it does on the inside on the outside no one would buy or pay what the retail price is because the insides looks like something Hipoint would make in terms of precision, fit and finish.
We have all kinds of body cam and dash cam footage showing that the officers hands where no where near the handgun when it fired in it's holster. We have the FBI reporting of two Michigan State Trooper Issued weapons. We have the video of the US Air Force Airman getting shot by his own weapon on the table in the holster and his hands are not anywhere near it.
Then you have all the court cases that have been procedural wins where basickly the Judge did not allow the expert witness testimony of the plantifs because the expert witness was not a published expert in peer reviewed jouranls!
There is so much solid observational finding of un-commanded discharge in just this model across multiple police, government agencies and military as to be too great to be "just negligence". When you get a safety signal this strong, consistent and repeated across multiple agencies with just one design you would have to be ignorant of the facts or have an IQ bellow 75 to brush it off.
In fact it can be reproduced by multiple people on demand in a lot but not all examples. You do not need to understand why it is happening or the root cause of the problem to take some preventive measures until you know more. Thanks to police body cams and dash cams the body of evidence is growing every day and SIG continues to double and tripple down. Old fuds keep ignoring the problem. Maybe some of you guys got too many boosters and you can not keep up but this is a significant problem.
SIG to this day even after the volantary upgrade denies that the gun was not drop safe in spite of all kinds of people drop testing them and having them go off.
Yes I remeber the Audi, Saab, Toyota sudden acceleration cases. I also remeber the Vega, the Pinto, the Corvair, the GM Sunfire and Caviler ignition cylinder, the Eaton 4,6,8 system, The Cadilac 4.1L, The modern AFM/DFM eating cams, the current GM full size transmission issues, the GM L87 crank and crank bearing issue, Toyota current Turbo V6 troubles, Dodge Ram Turbo Inline 6 issues and on and on. A lot of companies with very real issues every day right now and I only touched the tip of the iceberg. When you work in engineering it is also better to learn from other peoples failures and to point them out to managment and bean counter lest they lead you down the same path. Ignorance is bliss for some but when the problem kills people that is an entirely different level of accountability!
Then you have all the court cases that have been procedural wins where basickly the Judge did not allow the expert witness testimony of the plantifs because the expert witness was not a published expert in peer reviewed jouranls!
There is so much solid observational finding of un-commanded discharge in just this model across multiple police, government agencies and military as to be too great to be "just negligence". When you get a safety signal this strong, consistent and repeated across multiple agencies with just one design you would have to be ignorant of the facts or have an IQ bellow 75 to brush it off.
In fact it can be reproduced by multiple people on demand in a lot but not all examples. You do not need to understand why it is happening or the root cause of the problem to take some preventive measures until you know more. Thanks to police body cams and dash cams the body of evidence is growing every day and SIG continues to double and tripple down. Old fuds keep ignoring the problem. Maybe some of you guys got too many boosters and you can not keep up but this is a significant problem.
SIG to this day even after the volantary upgrade denies that the gun was not drop safe in spite of all kinds of people drop testing them and having them go off.
Yes I remeber the Audi, Saab, Toyota sudden acceleration cases. I also remeber the Vega, the Pinto, the Corvair, the GM Sunfire and Caviler ignition cylinder, the Eaton 4,6,8 system, The Cadilac 4.1L, The modern AFM/DFM eating cams, the current GM full size transmission issues, the GM L87 crank and crank bearing issue, Toyota current Turbo V6 troubles, Dodge Ram Turbo Inline 6 issues and on and on. A lot of companies with very real issues every day right now and I only touched the tip of the iceberg. When you work in engineering it is also better to learn from other peoples failures and to point them out to managment and bean counter lest they lead you down the same path. Ignorance is bliss for some but when the problem kills people that is an entirely different level of accountability!
Definitely will not be buying a 320.
sig underbid by $100 or Glock would be our new army sidearm.glock has fewer parts and proven.
The Beretta apx passed all test.would be better than the sig.uhgaa. They are selling for $300
Wonder how many more people have to holster these pistols and shoot themselves before this gets handled....
There's already 100's of folks swearing finger wasn't on trigger when gun went off.
Now I'm not expert at all on subject just what I'm hearing.
leo's on talk radio and all the concerns from day one of these pistols
sig underbid by $100 or Glock would be our new army sidearm.glock has fewer parts and proven.
The Beretta apx passed all test.would be better than the sig.uhgaa. They are selling for $300
Wonder how many more people have to holster these pistols and shoot themselves before this gets handled....
There's already 100's of folks swearing finger wasn't on trigger when gun went off.
Now I'm not expert at all on subject just what I'm hearing.
leo's on talk radio and all the concerns from day one of these pistols
Sadly the US Army is suffering from buzz words especially the term modular! No way SIG earned it's 3 contracts on merit alone! I think a lot of us would like to see some investigations!
The M9A1 was a good platform plagued by poor maintence, cheap out of spec non-Beretta magazines, combined with way out of specification ammo that was not only damaging Berettas but also SIGP226's as well!
The M9A3 would have been the best sidearm the US Army had ever purchased had they gone through with it! The M17/18 never finished the testing and only made it to half the round count of the M9.
The M9A1 was a good platform plagued by poor maintence, cheap out of spec non-Beretta magazines, combined with way out of specification ammo that was not only damaging Berettas but also SIGP226's as well!
The M9A3 would have been the best sidearm the US Army had ever purchased had they gone through with it! The M17/18 never finished the testing and only made it to half the round count of the M9.
Any other issues not withstanding, of this I think we all can agree
Shoot I definitely will be making judgement in a time with great sidearms.........to many good ones
Just listening to Michael Berry on way home from work Thursday or Friday.leo claims he shot himself without finger on trigger with a 320...good enough for me to say naw I'll buy something else.
Go ahead get a great deal on one.lol
Not me
Have heard issues from day one
Hard pass here internet bologna or not lol
nicholst55
Brass Whore
This from a video from Sig Mechanics - it takes .090" of movement of the P320's trigger to disengage the striker safety.
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
Any gun can fire re-holstering if the trigger is pulled. That's unfortunately not the problem we are seeing with Sig P320s.
After watching several videos I have resolved not to allow any dry wall screws near the trigger of any pistol. Old engineering principle, "if it happened it is possible"
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