Facts RE SIG P320 Issues?

[David Milisock]

SIG SAUER P320 BAN NOW IN EFFECT

The Gun Club Board of Directors has implemented an immediate, total ban on the SIG Sauer P320 platform across all Club property. This includes all variants such as the M17, M18, X5, AXG, and any aftermarket configurations (e.g. custom FCUs, third-party frames, etc.).

As of now, P320s are completely prohibited anywhere on range grounds, not just on the ranges, but also in parking areas, vehicles, bags, and all match or event spaces. This ban does not apply to any other SIG Sauer models.

The primary goal is safety first for our members, guests, competitors, and spectators. While we have no direct knowledge of the potential technical defect of this firearm system, the volume of ranges, organizations and military units declaring a problem has made it too visible to deny. We will re-evaluate this decision in the future if new credible information emerges.

Banning a particular firearm is the last thing we ever want to do, but the safety of our members and guests has to come first.

In an hour I'm going to my club to start the discussion to ban all Sig 320 variants from the property.

I've watch hours of video and the uncommanded discharge possibility in my opinion is a combination of stacked tolerances, poor design, wear and user over confidence.

When a round is chambered the striker has sufficient energy to discharge the primer. The wear and or lack of machine tolerance make a very sloppy slide to frame fit.

The big issue is that Sig just lost 3 parts of a lawsuit that they won. The important parts is the court found that their design and manufacturing is negligent.

 

[ELR LVR]

The X-Ten is the same design as the other Sigs more or less. Sig has been making rolling changes all through the lifecycle of the P320. I've had four P320s and internally, they were all different. The problems occur between the interface of the sear/safety/lifter arm I believe and it doesn't necessarily occur with any single generation of P320 pistols.

Mine has no safety other than my finger
(Im used to it from rifles with no safety)
So...........The guns with a Safety are the unsafe ones huh? lol that would be very ironical

 

[waverly]

I'm a big fan of Sigs 220 series 220,226,228,229.

MyP220 is a 38 Super. I have 2) 365’s, and a P938, and a P226/MK 25. I never purchased a 320 , or variant.
After I retired last year I worked part time at a small gun shop. We did have 320 bought used (it was on consignment) that customer who bought it said his cat knocked it off of his bedside table and it went off. We couldn’t verify that, but we did take it back.
I’ve always liked an Sig. pistol, and I hope it all gets worked out for their sake.

 

[David Milisock]

Mine has no safety other than my finger
(Im used to it from rifles with no safety)
So...........The guns with a Safety are the unsafe ones huh? lol that would be very ironical
View attachment 1682802

Unfortunately this design has been shown that it needs no finger to fire!

 

[David Milisock]

MyP220 is a 38 Super. I have 2) 365’s, and a P938, and a P226/MK 25. I never purchased a 320 , or variant.
After I retired last year I worked part time at a small gun shop. We did have 320 bought used (it was on consignment) that customer who bought it said his cat knocked it off of his bedside table and it went off. We couldn’t verify that, but we did take it back.
I’ve always liked an Sig. pistol, and I hope it all gets worked out for their sake.

I hate to see this in the firearm community.

 

[AccelR8]

Mine has no safety other than my finger
(Im used to it from rifles with no safety)
So...........The guns with a Safety are the unsafe ones huh? lol that would be very ironical

The striker safety should block the striker in the event that the sear somehow releases without trigger pull.

One idea presented early on is that if the sear should fall without a trigger pull (no explanation of how this would happen, it would have to be treated as a separate issue), the sear in turn would push the trigger bar forward and this would lift the striker safety lever.

So I tried my gun with no manual safety, releasing the sear artificially with a tool as per the internet video testing procedure (I say that tongue in cheek). On my gun the trigger bar and striker safety lever DID move however the gun would NOT fire a primed case. The striker safety was not disabled. This “test” was done repeatedly. I would be quick to add this is a sample of exactly one gun, with good, in-spec parts and no excessive wear or dirt accumulation.

Out of pure curiosity, I converted my gun to a manual safety. With the safety engaged, releasing the sear does NOT cause movement of the trigger bar forward and does NOT lift the striker safety lever. So, with manual safety engaged it is “more safe” than without.

Again...good parts, clean, and not worn.

 

[mike mccormick]

I'm a RSO at a military base range that rents many guns. The M-17 is one that sees a lot of use with many thousands of rounds put through them by sometimes inexperienced shooters. These guns don't see the care we would for our personal weapons. Never seen an AD and can't remember any type of malfunction. The 320 is striker fired and can't fire without the trigger pulled. With the gun at rest the striker is blocked and its spring is unloaded to a point it doesn't have enough energy to fire a round. Whoever started these rumors must not know much about the

 

[GotRDid]

 

[shoot4fun]

So our Glocks have a internal safety that these 320’s don’t?

The Glock striker, for that matter most, is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled. The Sig P320 is fully cocked. The Glock, IIRC, has the least amount of initial "pre-cock" than the M&P but I know of no other striker fired pistol that uses the fully cocked striker. I am not privy to changes made in the M&P2.0 but it seems that pistol sets at half-cock, has (had) an articulating trigger lever, an internal stop that moved away when fired and offered a safety that (improtant) blocked the trigger movement. From what I've read the Sig trigger could possibly move the .075 thousandths required to release the trigger even WITH the safety engaged.
These "unintended discharges" have plagued the P320 for years but now, suddenly, it is a big deal because of the death of a soldier where a P320 discharged in the holster a week or so ago. Never owned a Sig striker-fired pistol but have put thousands of rounds through M&P, Glock, Walther and Springfield handguns of this configuration but never had any such discharges.

 

[AccelR8]

the Sig trigger could possibly move the .075 thousandths required to release the trigger even WITH the safety engaged.

With mine, no. The trigger does not move practically at all, not more than a few thou., with the safety engaged. I stress again, that's a sample of one gun out of many.

I think most if not all of the UDs were with holstered pistols without a manual safety. If the Air Force incident was with a holstered, safety-on pistol (and we just don't know that at this time) then there's something else going on besides holster, trigger, and possibly foreign object interaction. We'll have to see if we ever get more information.

 

[nicholst55]

With mine, no. The trigger does not move practically at all, not more than a few thou., with the safety engaged. I stress again, that's a sample of one gun out of many.

I think most if not all of the UDs were with holstered pistols without a manual safety. If the Air Force incident was with a holstered, safety-on pistol (and we just don't know that at this time) then there's something else going on besides holster, trigger, and possibly foreign object interaction. We'll have to see if we ever get more information.

There was a similar incident in April of 2023 at Camp Foster, Okinawa. A Japanese civilian security guard was witnessed (and recorded on a security camera) loading his gun, chambering a round, and engaging the safety. He holstered the gun, and a while later, rested his hand on the holstered gun, whereupon it discharged. Fortunately, no injuries. When the investigation began and he removed the gun from the holster, the safety was still engaged. Once again, witnessed by others that were present.

The gun is unsafe, IMHO, safety or no. Once again, I believe that it's a case of a flawed design and a lack of QC of parts and the assembled gun.

 

[drop_point]

Mine has no safety other than my finger
(Im used to it from rifles with no safety)
So...........The guns with a Safety are the unsafe ones huh? lol that would be very ironical
View attachment 1682802

The safety is internal. It is designed to block the striker from falling until the trigger is pulled through most of its travel. It has a lifter that moves up and pushes a rocker out of the way which allows the striker to travel.

 

[ELR LVR]

The safety is internal. It is designed to block the striker from falling until the trigger is pulled through most of its travel. It has a lifter that moves up and pushes a rocker out of the way which allows the striker to travel.

Yes, although some models also have a thumb safety too
So are those models also still going off even with the manual safety on?
Or is it the models with the internal safety only as you mentioned
---------
From what Im seeing it is both, and the manual safety has no effect

 

[AccelR8]

Thumb safety only prevents trigger actuation by finger, holster, foreign object, or anything else. The big "if" is that the sear can move independently of the trigger/trigger bar and (in my opinion) the striker safety is not a robust design and can conceivably fail to function due to dirt, broken or out of spec parts. While you would need both of those to happen at the same time, the manual safety would prevent neither.

 

[drop_point]

Yes, although some models also have a thumb safety too
So are those models also still going off even with the manual safety on?
Or is it the models with the internal safety only as you mentioned
---------
From what Im seeing it is both, and the manual safety has no effect

Yes, both are going off.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Worst thing about this is if you don’t carry one in the chamber, you may as well have a stick in your pocket.

 

[ELR LVR]

Worst thing about this is if you don’t carry one in the chamber, you may as well have a stick in your pocket.

True That!
Gotta practice your quick draw then
Be sure to try and time the accidental discharge to go off after you've drawn and aimed

 

[Billy 30-06]

I just checked my 320-m17 and found the striker close to full cock with the slide home. If there was a malfunction with the striker block and somehow the sear dislodged it could possibly fire a round in the chamber. With a properly maintained gun this is unlikely. Glocks can fire when re holstering and clothing gets caught in the trigger so be careful when re holstering.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I came very close to buying a 320 a few years ago. Super accurate. I putzed around for a few months and never did anything. Sigs are about my favorite pistol. This 320 mess is enough to put Sig out of business in it's current form! I didn't know the part about the executive from Kimber(?). Regardless of the 'wear' issues, seems to me, the design is flawed. I am sure the modular design is cheaper to build than the older 220, 226 etc, pistols.

 

[skeeljc]

Just buy a FN Reflex. Hammer fired, DAO, nice trigger.