• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Sling Class Structure

Heavy barrel

Silver $$ Contributor
Just thinking out loud here & wanted to get some others opinions.

For sling you have Palma, Any/Irons, Any/Any & Optics only and there is only one overall winner. Except for Optics only. They can only win that class. This is very confusing for someone looking to get started.

In F-class you have 2 classes & 2 winners. You don't have any overall winner. Pretty simple.

Why not just have 2 classes in sling?

Using the Southwest Nationals as an example, if you want to shoot Any Rifle you have to have a Palma rifle for Friday, then an Any rifle with iron sights for Saturday & then have a scope for Sunday to be eligible to win the Agg. If you shoot Optics or Any on Friday or Saturday you are out of the Agg & basically shooting for fun.

For people who are just getting into the sport that is expensive & makes travel more of a hassle.

For our older shooters that can't see like they used to that may keep them at home.

If you just have 2 classes, our new could get into it cheaper & easier & our older shooters may keep coming to the matches. And would include the Optics only crowd to be eligible for for the Agg.

Palma is Palma! Nothing wrong with Palma. Leave Palma alone. Love me some Palma. But I've been lucky enough I don't have any vision problems (yet).

I know things are the way they are because that is the way it's always been done but with this one simple change we may be able to keep our older shooters shooting & may be easier to attract new shooters.

What say you? Am I way off base? Go ahead bash me if I wrong, I can take it.
 
I don’t think eyesight is the only detriment to older shooters shooting sling.
We have a couple of sling shooters at my home club, and I have tried it a few times.

You cannot believe how difficult it is for someone my age to be able to shoot kneeling, or even prone. As I say. I might be able to get into prone, but how the heck am I going to get up :)

It’s a younger man’s game.
 
Start with optic and learn the fundamentals. Decide how deep you want to get. Most great prone shooters also shoot smallbore prone. Not really any more confusing than benchrest. Light varmint, heavy varmint, sporter, rimfire, long range, oh my!
 
Today, the easy button is shooting with a scope and a rest. F-Class was created for older shooters who are challenged to support the rifle in their hands and use iron sights or a scope.
Shooting prone with a sling n iron sights is a skill set that takes years of dedication to execute successfully. Many today are interested in the accelerated path to MR and LR competition which is F-Class.
Sling shooting with iron sights requires a significant commitment to master the craft. Most sling shooters followed the path of service rifle shooting ( Leg matches, Presidents 100) and are very familiar with the use/ adjustments of iron sights. They then progressed to prone sling shooting with match rifles and perhaps Palma competitions. The NRA allowing scopes on service/ match rifles in prone competitions removed the eye sight element of iron sights. It still requires the mastery of prone/ sling supported position building.
Palma competitions are the true test of the rifleman’s ability. Shooter supported rifle, iron sights, and 308 n 223 cartridges that do not have superior wind bucking ability. Read the wind, solid position, center the target and squeeze.
 
ksfrank said:
Sling,

Palma or Any/Any
Click to expand...
This. We changed our state matches to Palma and Any/Any in the sling category, doing away with the stand-alone Optic division and Saturday irons requirement. Optic rifles (excluding Service rifles) now fall into the Any/Any division. Along with Match rifles. If someone chooses to shoot irons (non-Palma) more power to them. Also did away with overall match winner since some divisions could never win it. Shooters have been very receptive to the change.
 
When I shoot with a sling, I shoot optical. I enjoy it. It is closer to what "F" class was when George started it. For a while, the DCRA was allowing the use of a 4X scope, in lieu of irons, I liked that too. I could stick an old 4x Weaver on a rifle and shoot with the fullbore guys. With the large field of view, I never crossfired! When "F" class split into Open and F/TR, I thought the bipod requirement was stupid, so I shot with a sling and shot optical.
Jackie's point about the physical difficulty of shooting prone is well taken. I will often have to sit up in the middle of a string, just to rest my neck and back. This is one reason I decided to start shooting from the bench again. Oh, I have to confess, it would take months of therapy just to make it possible for me to get into a good kneeling position! I fact, as I think about it, I have never shot from kneeling again since I had to switch to left handed, and that was fifty years ago.
The attraction of "F" class early on was that it was just shootin'! A lot of us were former BR shooters and varmint shooters and it was fun to shoot alongside shooters from other disciplines. We also got to try with different cartridges and rifle configurations. As "F" evolved more into BR without a bench, some were turned off. That's just the way things are.
If there were to be 2 classes of sling shooting, I would simply make it irons and optical, period. WH
 
  • Like
Reactions: SBS
Will Henry said:
When I shoot with a sling, I shoot optical. I enjoy it. It is closer to what "F" class was when George started it. For a while, the DCRA was allowing the use of a 4X scope, in lieu of irons, I liked that too. I could stick an old 4x Weaver on a rifle and shoot with the fullbore guys. With the large field of view, I never crossfired! When "F" class split into Open and F/TR, I thought the bipod requirement was stupid, so I shot with a sling and shot optical.
Jackie's point about the physical difficulty of shooting prone is well taken. I will often have to sit up in the middle of a string, just to rest my neck and back. This is one reason I decided to start shooting from the bench again. Oh, I have to confess, it would take months of therapy just to make it possible for me to get into a good kneeling position! I fact, as I think about it, I have never shot from kneeling again since I had to switch to left handed, and that was fifty years ago.
The attraction of "F" class early on was that it was just shootin'! A lot of us were former BR shooters and varmint shooters and it was fun to shoot alongside shooters from other disciplines. We also got to try with different cartridges and rifle configurations. As "F" evolved more into BR without a bench, some were turned off. That's just the way things are.
If there were to be 2 classes of sling shooting, I would simply make it irons and optical, period. WH
Click to expand...
What part of HP is shot kneeling? I have shot XC from 1989 till 2005 n never shot kneeling. That was part of three/ four position smallbore competitions.
At 75, shooting prone/ sling does not get any easier, but no less satisfying. Gravity makes getting down on the mat the easy part. Standing back up is the challenge. Fitting light Palma bbls , fixed power 1inch tube scopes, iron sights help keep rifle weight down. Lighter rifles are easier to hold up for a prone string of fire. It is the challenge of being a rifleman that makes prone/ sling shooting a worthwhile endeavor.
 
4 position. You are right, not commonly shot with highpower rifles but it is, or was, on occasion. Often, competitions are informal, unsanctioned things. We used to attend what were called Rifleman's Rodeos, which were a very hunting oriented event. These were never hampered by any governing body.
Like I said, I like prone with a sling, and like that results are very much tied to shooter effort. WH
 
Heavy barrel said:
Palma
Any Optic. Or call it Open.
Click to expand...
Leave it alone. If you shoot Palma as your stating, You have a set of irons. It’s not difficult to move the rear sight from the Palma to the Any rifle with for iron sight matches. Many shooters have only one Any/Rifle and change from irons to scope to match the corse of fire. Also an Any rifle with irons is legal in an Any/Any match. Hence the term “Any”. Then you also have Service rifle in the mix.
Regards, Jack
 
Acyr said:
This. We changed our state matches to Palma and Any/Any in the sling category, doing away with the stand-alone Optic division and Saturday irons requirement. Optic rifles (excluding Service rifles) now fall into the Any/Any division. Along with Match rifles. If someone chooses to shoot irons (non-Palma) more power to them. Also did away with overall match winner since some divisions could never win it. Shooters have been very receptive to the change.
Click to expand...
I have been happy with this change. Less confusion when signing up for a match.

The 200 yard rapid stage can be shot sitting or kneeling. No one shoots kneeling as sitting is more stable.
 
Heavy barrel said:
For sling you have Palma, Any/Irons, Any/Any & Optics only and there is only one overall winner. Except for Optics only. They can only win that class. This is very confusing for someone looking to get started.
Click to expand...
I could see merging Optics Only with Any/Any -- honestly don't know why those would be separate anyway, if you're allowing optics all the time. But otherwise I'd keep the grand agg the way it is: reward those who want to put in the time and effort to get good with irons.
 
What are the new classes that have been introduced? Have seen ARs with big scopes
( over the service limit) and by-pods. AR Tac? Also, scoped bolt guns with by- pods in non-Palma calibers ( Creedmore etc.). Perhaps it is just a local match situation.
 
this is an ongoing discussion among sling shooters and match directors, there has been no "any iron" rifle category in the NRA rule book for years, the CMP has had this sorted out for quite some time, they have three rifle categories
Service
Palma
Match (which combines "any/any" and highpower match rifles)
its long past time for NRA to follow suit
having a single sling shooter award makes no sense but this pretty much falls under the discretion of individual match directors.
There are plenty of XTC shooters (that pretty much all shoot optics) who have rifles perfectly capable of long range match competition but because some match directors insist on having an iron sight day are forced to spend lots of $$ to convert their rifles to iron sights (for one days use) or shoot out of competition, having sperate rifle category winners fixes this without penalizing anyone.
 
Last edited:
gme said:
There are plenty of XTC shooters (that pretty much all shoot optics) who have rifles perfectly capable of long range match competition but because some match directors insist on having an iron sight day are forced to spend lots of $$ to convert their rifles to iron sights (for one days use) or shoot out of competition, having sperate rifle category winners fixes this without penalizing anyone.
Click to expand...
THIS.

I'd go a step further and say that any CMP-compliant Service Rifle should count as a Palma rifle.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Classified Ads

Forum statistics

Threads
165,966
Messages
2,207,507
Members
79,255
Latest member
Mark74

Share This Page

Back
Top