PRECISIONWELDING01
Gold $$ Contributor
Lol mudcat you hit the nail on the head probably won't make the f class crowd happy
FT/R vs slingshooters
- Thread starter broncman
- Start date
The target was THE target for how many decades and now it's called the BIG target by people who claim to not want division????
yeah, put it on a sling an coat and tell me how big the target is. A 10 year old shoots a 197 on his second outing and I'm shooting a BIG target. I bet Farkey is laughing his ass off seeing all crap over something he started when he was old and couldn't compete with sling and irons.
It's was labeled the F(un) class by him for what reason????? Maybe he saw this as the fun?
yeah, put it on a sling an coat and tell me how big the target is. A 10 year old shoots a 197 on his second outing and I'm shooting a BIG target. I bet Farkey is laughing his ass off seeing all crap over something he started when he was old and couldn't compete with sling and irons.
It's was labeled the F(un) class by him for what reason????? Maybe he saw this as the fun?
XTR said:I haven't done both, but one of the sling shooters (Jim Sokolowski) you shot with at OR a couple of weeks ago has. He says sling is harder, and I believe him. Pretty much anyone can get in the black with an F class rifle with a few sighters, (my very first shot ever from 1000 yards was in the black) and F class shooters can hold off for wind, something that really doesn't work at all for sling shooters. F class requires a higher level of wind reading, but unless something weird is happening with the wind or you have bad loads F class shooters don't see much vertical, the rest takes care of that for us.
That said, it is far harder to shoot Master in F class. Someone pls correct me if I'm wrong, but Master in F class since the don't know of a single person who has made High [/u] [/u] e target changed in 2006 or so. I don't think it can be done in F-TR unless one of our very good shooters gets about three weekends in a row with phenomenal wind conditions.
I will tell you that if you show up at one of the ORSA practice sessions and you want to try someone will let you give it a whirl, the only problem for you will be that they all have really nice rifles
XTR...allow me correct you!! I received my F-Class Long-Range HIGH MASTER card from the NRA dated effective 10/02/2009. In 2008, including the F-Class Nationals for that year; and 2009 thru the F-Class Nationals for that year, I shot F-TR, and earned the classification exclusively from F-TR. It can be done. Ask someone about the winds at Lodi at 2008 FCN or the winds at Butner at 2009 FCN! I crossed over to F-TR from a Palma rifle HIGH MASTER rating. My first FCN was in 2007 following the SOA out at Raton...as a lark I put a 24x Mark IV scope and a Harris bipod on my Barnard/offset Mastin stock Palma rifle after the SOA, and went to it. Did I ever learn a lesson!! I've never shot Palma rifle after that (but I just might, after the cataract surgery last year). And, when I commenced shooting just F-TR in 2008, I had the right rig. Both are difficult, but I'd say F-TR is the harder for the reduced target rings...a lotta room for argument though?
Danny J. Biggs
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
Comments like the above is what I don't understand about all this. We (slingers and F'ers) both shoot. Shouldn't we be promoting shooting as a sport instead of bashing the other guy because he likes something different than you? I once rode a Harley, sold it and bought a sport car. My old Harley buddies don't give me a ration of crap about it. Doesn't it all boil down to personal preference? Just because I shoot my rifle off "crutches" and the thought of shooting in a coat in 100 degree weather doesn't turn me on, make me less of a shooter?
Nothing that I just typed has anything to do with the content of the original question. That said, I'd love to have good enough eyesight to shoot sling but I know that's not happening. So I shoot off "crutches". And you know what?
Most fun I ever had. F must stand for FUN.
Nothing that I just typed has anything to do with the content of the original question. That said, I'd love to have good enough eyesight to shoot sling but I know that's not happening. So I shoot off "crutches". And you know what?
Most fun I ever had. F must stand for FUN.
I am of the all for one and one for all mentality when it comes down to a discipline debate. Excellence is in the eyes of the beholder and the wind blows for all of us!! I'm not competing against another class and that's why they are there, so we can get a fit and compete in a class. There is plenty of competition within each class to keep us busy.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Danny, last yr I was talking with someone about equipment and what did and didn't make a difference, or how much of a difference, at some point in the conversation I made the comment I was pretty sure that you could out shoot me using a 30-30 lever gun. I'm even more certain of that now. ;D
Wade
Wade
Not sure which is more "challenging", but I do know that when I was competing, I certainly enjoyed prone sling shooting a lot more.
Something about actually holding the rifle, and using irons, was just a lot more satisfying to me.
I like my scope shooting just fine as well, but confine that to the groundhog fields. 8)
Something about actually holding the rifle, and using irons, was just a lot more satisfying to me.
I like my scope shooting just fine as well, but confine that to the groundhog fields. 8)
Relative to all of the above, here is something interesting for you to check out.
F-Class and sling competitors shoot side by side in many of the local club and regional matches throughout the US (and we note each others scores). Each discipline has its own exclusive "National Competition". About the only "regional-level" match that more or less brings the "who's who" of both disciplines together under the guise of a "national-level" match is the annual Berger Southwest Long Range Nationals held in Phoenix. I'll concede that ALL of the "who's" do not show up for this match, especially some of the "sling who"s" east of the Mississippi River. But, the match provides a pretty good representative sample for what I wish to demonstrate.
Go to the Berger web site, and pull up the aggregate scores for Palma rifle, Any-Any rifle, F-Open rifle, and F-Target rifle for the past few years. Now, dare compare the Palma rifle and F-Target rifle scores of similar caliber bullet...the Any-Any rifle and F-Open scores of similar caliber bullets...and even the Palma rifle scores and F-Open rifle scores with dissimilar caliber bullets. Notice that higher aggregate scores are posted by the sling shooters, possibly due to the smaller target rings.
Danny Biggs
F-Class and sling competitors shoot side by side in many of the local club and regional matches throughout the US (and we note each others scores). Each discipline has its own exclusive "National Competition". About the only "regional-level" match that more or less brings the "who's who" of both disciplines together under the guise of a "national-level" match is the annual Berger Southwest Long Range Nationals held in Phoenix. I'll concede that ALL of the "who's" do not show up for this match, especially some of the "sling who"s" east of the Mississippi River. But, the match provides a pretty good representative sample for what I wish to demonstrate.
Go to the Berger web site, and pull up the aggregate scores for Palma rifle, Any-Any rifle, F-Open rifle, and F-Target rifle for the past few years. Now, dare compare the Palma rifle and F-Target rifle scores of similar caliber bullet...the Any-Any rifle and F-Open scores of similar caliber bullets...and even the Palma rifle scores and F-Open rifle scores with dissimilar caliber bullets. Notice that higher aggregate scores are posted by the sling shooters, possibly due to the smaller target rings.
Danny Biggs
Down South
FTR Junkie
dannyjbiggs said:XTR said:I haven't done both, but one of the sling shooters (Jim Sokolowski) you shot with at OR a couple of weeks ago has. He says sling is harder, and I believe him. Pretty much anyone can get in the black with an F class rifle with a few sighters, (my very first shot ever from 1000 yards was in the black) and F class shooters can hold off for wind, something that really doesn't work at all for sling shooters. F class requires a higher level of wind reading, but unless something weird is happening with the wind or you have bad loads F class shooters don't see much vertical, the rest takes care of that for us.
That said, it is far harder to shoot Master in F class. Someone pls correct me if I'm wrong, but Master in F class since the don't know of a single person who has made High [/u] [/u] e target changed in 2006 or so. I don't think it can be done in F-TR unless one of our very good shooters gets about three weekends in a row with phenomenal wind conditions.
I will tell you that if you show up at one of the ORSA practice sessions and you want to try someone will let you give it a whirl, the only problem for you will be that they all have really nice rifles
XTR...allow me correct you!! I received my F-Class Long-Range HIGH MASTER card from the NRA dated effective 10/02/2009. In 2008, including the F-Class Nationals for that year; and 2009 thru the F-Class Nationals for that year, I shot F-TR, and earned the classification exclusively from F-TR. It can be done. Ask someone about the winds at Lodi at 2008 FCN or the winds at Butner at 2009 FCN! I crossed over to F-TR from a Palma rifle HIGH MASTER rating. My first FCN was in 2007 following the SOA out at Raton...as a lark I put a 24x Mark IV scope and a Harris bipod on my Barnard/offset Mastin stock Palma rifle after the SOA, and went to it. Did I ever learn a lesson!! I've never shot Palma rifle after that (but I just might, after the cataract surgery last year). And, when I commenced shooting just F-TR in 2008, I had the right rig. Both are difficult, but I'd say F-TR is the harder for the reduced target rings...a lotta room for argument though?
Danny J. Biggs
Congrats on the LR high master ranking in FTR, quite an accomplishment! I personally don't know of anyone that has done it in LR FTR. A few guys i shoot with have done it in 600 midrange FTR but LR is a different ballgame as you all know. Well done!
I have never quite understood the rivalry of Sling vs. F-Class. It is like saying Motorcycle vs Car. They are two different sports with the same goal.
I have shot both F-Open and Sling, both to some relative success. I got into this game shooting SR XTC, after going DR, Prez100 and HM, I switched to MR, then a friend asked me to shoot one of his F-Open Rifles and I thought it was a good chance to learn about LR on someone else's dime. Reached Master level and came in 5th overall ind. in 2009 Nationals and part of the 2nd place team. I have since switched back to sling and am currently classified Master. Not so much success in trophies, but seem to be holding my own in some very good company. Still learning and improving. I do not shoot Any/Any as I have restricted myself to Iron.
Sling shooting is more challenging on the firing line at least with Iron sights. Physical and Mentally. I think that F-Class is more challenging off the line. More equipment prep, and reloading to that level is intense. I never really knew how to reload until I shot F-Class.
In each you have to do the basics. Sight alignment, position, wind reading, trigger squeeze. I hate wearing a heavy coat in the heat, but I equally hate toting an extra 70 lbs of front and rear rests up and down the range. To each his own.
I have never shot FTR, but I would imagine that it is the most difficult, if you are trying to shoot a clean.
The more the merrier, just get a rifle and go shoot and have fun and fellowship.
I have shot both F-Open and Sling, both to some relative success. I got into this game shooting SR XTC, after going DR, Prez100 and HM, I switched to MR, then a friend asked me to shoot one of his F-Open Rifles and I thought it was a good chance to learn about LR on someone else's dime. Reached Master level and came in 5th overall ind. in 2009 Nationals and part of the 2nd place team. I have since switched back to sling and am currently classified Master. Not so much success in trophies, but seem to be holding my own in some very good company. Still learning and improving. I do not shoot Any/Any as I have restricted myself to Iron.
Sling shooting is more challenging on the firing line at least with Iron sights. Physical and Mentally. I think that F-Class is more challenging off the line. More equipment prep, and reloading to that level is intense. I never really knew how to reload until I shot F-Class.
In each you have to do the basics. Sight alignment, position, wind reading, trigger squeeze. I hate wearing a heavy coat in the heat, but I equally hate toting an extra 70 lbs of front and rear rests up and down the range. To each his own.
I have never shot FTR, but I would imagine that it is the most difficult, if you are trying to shoot a clean.
The more the merrier, just get a rifle and go shoot and have fun and fellowship.
why dont you see if a club/shooter has equipment you can use and decide for yourself? I've lent gun/equipment to a new shooter and suspect most others have too. You probably could line up to shoot both types on different relays at the same match. Talk to the RO ahead of time and see what he/she can come up with.
Offer to pay for ammo, lunch, or gas......
Offer to pay for ammo, lunch, or gas......
I think this was a very interesting thread. At Lodi, we always kid each other, sling & f class. I don't need training wheels for my gun, why would I shoot at a basketball when I can hit a BB etc etc. It's fun but the main thing is shooting. And we can all learn from each other. Besides, I know a lot of sling shooters who drink beer. I prefer not to get all dolled up in a coat and chase a billboard but if thats all you know how to do I could understand how shooting at a target that is 1/4 the area (not half the size) could be intimidating to some. Sooner or later most likely you will find your barrel is getting to short for your eyes. Come over to the dark side! Bring your old high master sling card to Lodi so I can kick your ass! I will be glad to smoke a cigar and have a beer with you afterwards.
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
I agree this has been an interesting thread.
At our local club we hold 2 prone matches every month, LR on one Sunday and MR on another Sunday and we have slingers and f-ers. I used to shoot Fullbore a long time ago then Service Rifle more recently but I have left all that behind and took to F-class even before the NRA sanctioned it. I shoot F-TR exclusively, never tried F-Open. I currently hold an Expert card in LR and have at times posted Master-level scores, but not in the proper order; it's very difficult to achieve Master scores since we only shoot at 1000 yards, none of this 800-900-1000 yard stuff.
I love to talk with the Match Rifle shooters because we share calibers and in many cases, rifles; the sighting system and targets are different. We do have a (very) few slingers who look down on the F-ers as being lower than whale feces, but I just ignore that and enjoy talking with everyone.
We also have some high master slingers and it's always impressive to see them perform. When the conditions are not too bad; they do extremely well.
A couple of years back, I pulled out my old match rifle with which I used to compete in the 80s and shot a match in the summer time. In retrospect, that was not a good idea as I almost passed out from the heat in that jacket. I could not focus on the sights and I had a horrible score. I also found out my rifle was damaged, which didn't help matters.
That said, I have a lot of respect for the slingers, as well as my fellow F-ers. It takes some courage and dedication to come out and compete when the temperature is 127 degrees F. and humidity at 205%.
At our local club we hold 2 prone matches every month, LR on one Sunday and MR on another Sunday and we have slingers and f-ers. I used to shoot Fullbore a long time ago then Service Rifle more recently but I have left all that behind and took to F-class even before the NRA sanctioned it. I shoot F-TR exclusively, never tried F-Open. I currently hold an Expert card in LR and have at times posted Master-level scores, but not in the proper order; it's very difficult to achieve Master scores since we only shoot at 1000 yards, none of this 800-900-1000 yard stuff.
I love to talk with the Match Rifle shooters because we share calibers and in many cases, rifles; the sighting system and targets are different. We do have a (very) few slingers who look down on the F-ers as being lower than whale feces, but I just ignore that and enjoy talking with everyone.
We also have some high master slingers and it's always impressive to see them perform. When the conditions are not too bad; they do extremely well.
A couple of years back, I pulled out my old match rifle with which I used to compete in the 80s and shot a match in the summer time. In retrospect, that was not a good idea as I almost passed out from the heat in that jacket. I could not focus on the sights and I had a horrible score. I also found out my rifle was damaged, which didn't help matters.
That said, I have a lot of respect for the slingers, as well as my fellow F-ers. It takes some courage and dedication to come out and compete when the temperature is 127 degrees F. and humidity at 205%.
Alot of civil replies so far... Nice to see that.
When F Class started I was happy to see it. Prone shooting in general was slowly slipping away and i had thought at one time in my area that it would not be long beofore it died. You F class guys and gals have brought out alot of participation and for that Im very greatful. As a Match Director I am happy to have any and all shooters. Happy to have you.
Target size, bipod, sling, rest, scope or iron sights.... Who cares. The most improtant part is giving good and super fast target service to your fellow shooters. Marksman to Highmaster.. 5 to 10 seconds... Live it breath it do it.
RussT
When F Class started I was happy to see it. Prone shooting in general was slowly slipping away and i had thought at one time in my area that it would not be long beofore it died. You F class guys and gals have brought out alot of participation and for that Im very greatful. As a Match Director I am happy to have any and all shooters. Happy to have you.
Target size, bipod, sling, rest, scope or iron sights.... Who cares. The most improtant part is giving good and super fast target service to your fellow shooters. Marksman to Highmaster.. 5 to 10 seconds... Live it breath it do it.
RussT
So far this has been a great discussion and I have enjoyed it! I love to shoot period!
Heck I would shoot with a tank if they let me...
I have picked up on the friction between the two and I believe that is for the most part friendly competiveness. If it is a competition of any sort...you see that.
So far, the shooting crowd have been a great bunch and very helpful and that makes for an enjoybale time!
I got out of offroad racing beacuase it got very stressfull and many times very unfriendly.
Hope to start traveling to more matches and hopefully meet more of you guys on the line. Having to miss Tullahoma this weekend because of unexpected
Heck I would shoot with a tank if they let me...
I have picked up on the friction between the two and I believe that is for the most part friendly competiveness. If it is a competition of any sort...you see that.
So far, the shooting crowd have been a great bunch and very helpful and that makes for an enjoybale time!
I got out of offroad racing beacuase it got very stressfull and many times very unfriendly.
Hope to start traveling to more matches and hopefully meet more of you guys on the line. Having to miss Tullahoma this weekend because of unexpected
Down South
FTR Junkie
Rtheurer said:
Amen!
boltman13
Gold $$ Contributor
I have enjoyed reading all of the posts on this thread, there are some very interesting opinions expressed. I also agree that fast target service is greatly appreciated by any LR shooter and strive to give the best service I can to my fellow shooters. That said my personal experience has been very limited in F-TR to only 1 match at 600 yards recently and my score was 87.1%. My best score ever at 600 with the same rifle and load sling shooting was 91.5%. I shot F-TR at the recent Berger SW Nationals at 600 for S&G's with my X-course match rifle and a 4X12 scope. I am having a F-TR built in 308 but don't have it yet. I have done some practice with my long range rifle on a bipod, but not at a true F-class target. I think I will enjoy F-TR shooting, but don't plan to sell my long range sling rifle. There is plenty of room on the firing line for both types. Since we don't compete directly with each other, I think, do what you like the most and have fun.
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