Lot Numbers

[linebaugh]

It's an old wives tale that lot speed matters. Regardless of it's rated "speed" a good lot is a good lot in good rifles. Ammo quality is independent of velocity.

Shoot when it's warmer and the ammo will be a little faster. When it's cooler it will be a little slower. If it's good ammo the results will be good in both circumstances.

Smart bringing up temp sensitivity. They are for sure temperature dependant on velocity. I dont shoot benchrest but I want the best possible accuracy for PRS and i will literally shoot a new lot of ammo and then set a temp offset of .7 to 1 fps per degree. Simply stated because I need accurate drop data if I test at 70 degrees and I am now shooting 90 degrees I add 14-20 fps for that 20degree offset. Has worked well enough for me that I dont worry about it out to 300... and beyond 300 rimfires dont play well anyway.
This would change your tune if running a tuner and could change your natural tune if not. Surprisingly as stated above I see more times this does not affect accurate ammo than I ever see it being tied to a specific velocity. Which lends me to believe as above that accurate ammo is just that, more so than being velocity specific.

 

[shoot4fun]

Smart bringing up temp sensitivity. They are for sure temperature dependant on velocity. I dont shoot benchrest but I want the best possible accuracy for PRS and i will literally shoot a new lot of ammo and then set a temp offset of .7 to 1 fps per degree. Simply stated because I need accurate drop data if I test at 70 degrees and I am now shooting 90 degrees I add 14-20 fps for that 20degree offset. Has worked well enough for me that I dont worry about it out to 300... and beyond 300 rimfires dont play well anyway.
This would change your tune if running a tuner and could change your natural tune if not. Surprisingly as stated above I see more times this does not affect accurate ammo than I ever see it being tied to a specific velocity. Which lends me to believe as above that accurate ammo is just that, more so than being velocity specific.

We see temp sensitivity in powders used for long range BR and I expect (and get) the same from 22LR ammo. I may be wrong but I see no difference in the appearance of Lapua Center-X and Lapua Long Range. The difference is shown on the chronograph (at least from my perspective). Isn't that why we are willing to spend X% more for Long Range over Center-X? Or Tenex over Club?
I bought my 22LR bench gun used and was told "it likes Midas+ 26 speed. With a slight tuner adjustment it likes (and has won) with 27 speed Midas + as well. I'm still trying to unlock the mystery of tuners as to which direction and how much to "fix" those days when my best stuff has vertical or windage shifting.

 

[linebaugh]

We see temp sensitivity in powders used for long range BR and I expect (and get) the same from 22LR ammo. I may be wrong but I see no difference in the appearance of Lapua Center-X and Lapua Long Range. The difference is shown on the chronograph (at least from my perspective). Isn't that why we are willing to spend X% more for Long Range over Center-X? Or Tenex over Club?
I bought my 22LR bench gun used and was told "it likes Midas+ 26 speed. With a slight tuner adjustment it likes (and has won) with 27 speed Midas + as well. I'm still trying to unlock the mystery of tuners as to which direction and how much to "fix" those days when my best stuff has vertical or windage shifting.

Dunno and dont want to ruin a discussion debating speed vs lot numbers anymore, i trust what I have seen just like you do. I do not trust what I read, lol. If you are happy im happy.
I know 3 people that have shot the test center in the last year and all three bought center-x. I bet we will all agree that rimfire is just a pain in the butt no matter what angle you attack it with. Makes for plenty oc discussion thats for certain.

 

[Zonkers]

Thank for the good information!

I’m currently competing against myself using F Class targets, so I shoot the midrange price ammo which is Norma Match, SK Standard Plus and SK Match. Do any of those lot numbers give the speed or they just numbers?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Thank for the good information!

I’m currently competing against myself using F Class targets, so I shoot the midrange price ammo which is Norma Match, SK Standard Plus and SK Match. Do any of those lot numbers give the speed or they just numbers?

As long as the ammo you use works for you that is the only time lot numbers will matter as it will help for reordering more of the same lot number!

Lee

 

[7315br]

As long as the ammo you use works for you that is the only time lot numbers will matter as it will help for reordering more of the same lot number!

Lee

Lee,

I totally agree that your comments are "right on"...but I've run into problems trying to reorder a certain lot number. I found some Midas + that shot extremely well in my 2500x. I ended up "wiggling" (9) bricks out of a local guy here after much pleading...lol! I'm down to (7) bricks now, but have not seen any of this lot number for sale anywhere....soooo I panicked and bought three different lot numbers of Lapua X-Act to test from Whidden. My plan was to test it and buy more if I found a lot number that shot well in my rifle. Now...Whidden is out of the lots of X-Act! This .22 Match Rimfire ammo has really become a PIA!!

"Rant Over!"

7315br

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,

I totally agree that your comments are "right on"...but I've run into problems trying to reorder a certain lot number. I found some Midas + that shot extremely well in my 2500x. I ended up "wiggling" (9) bricks out of a local guy here after much pleading...lol! I'm down to (7) bricks now, but have not seen any of this lot number for sale anywhere....soooo I panicked and bought three different lot numbers of Lapua X-Act to test from Whidden. My plan was to test it and buy more if I found a lot number that shot well in my rifle. Now...Whidden is out of the lots of X-Act! This .22 Match Rimfire ammo has really become a PIA!!

"Rant Over!"

7315br

I completely understand the frustration. I bought 3 bricks of Midas+ awhile back the very first target I shot to tested it was a 2500 on the UL target second target 2350 called the next day to order a case was told no problem the case they sent was the wrong lot and the one I wanted was sold out! was not too happy but luckily the wrong lot did shoot decent not like the first one but across three rifles it does ok.

What compounds the problem is that Lapua went back to more stringent production protocols as they limit a run of 3-4 cases this is good for quality but not so much for us folks looking for ammo. good ammo is out there I have bought in the last 4 months two cases of Lapua one Pistol King and the other CX the PK I have one tournament win with and in an unsanctioned match shot a 7100 3 card score and a sanctioned 2400. the CX I have won in really bad wind. I am awaiting confirmation on a testing appointment and can't wait to see how lot testing will be. if the stuff I buy blind performs this good i can't imagine what tested ammo will be like!

Lee

 

[MUP]

Lee,

I totally agree that your comments are "right on"...but I've run into problems trying to reorder a certain lot number. I found some Midas + that shot extremely well in my 2500x. I ended up "wiggling" (9) bricks out of a local guy here after much pleading...lol! I'm down to (7) bricks now, but have not seen any of this lot number for sale anywhere....soooo I panicked and bought three different lot numbers of Lapua X-Act to test from Whidden. My plan was to test it and buy more if I found a lot number that shot well in my rifle. Now...Whidden is out of the lots of X-Act! This .22 Match Rimfire ammo has really become a PIA!!

"Rant Over!"

7315br

Welcome to the party!

 

[TRSR8]

Glen,
You can almost guarantee sometimes, posts from guys that don’t compete or never won anything of consequence.
It has been a well known fact, your comment spot. on.
In the world before Lapua dominated when everybody shot ELEY, a good barrel would shoot a good lot, anything from the 1040’s to the 1070’s.
The strata for Lapua is narrower.
Dome guys never had a great lotand base much on OK stuff, never extensively test and don’t realize the “speed” thing is coincidental at best.
Top flight shooters, record holders, etc. have inown this for decades.
Unfortunately the RFC mentality permeates and over there, you simply cannot correct misinformation.

 

[7315br]

Welcome to the party!

Went to the range this morning. Probably shouldn't have. It was calm at my house. The range is :17 away. Different story! Rt to Lt at 10-12mph...but steady soooo I shot.

The X-Act shot somewhat better. Best (5) shot group was .108" center to center. Another lot of X-Act did a (10) shot groups of .294" center to center. The best my current Midas + did was a (5) shot group of .329" center to center.

The problem is the X-Act is gone from Whidden's. Back to square one!

7315br

 

[MUP]

Went to the range this morning. Probably shouldn't have. It was calm at my house. The range is :17 away. Different story! Rt to Lt at 10-12mph...but steady soooo I shot.

The X-Act shot somewhat better. Best (5) shot group was .108" center to center. Another lot of X-Act did a (10) shot groups of .294" center to center. The best my current Midas + did was a (5) shot group of .329" center to center.

The problem is the X-Act is gone from Whidden's. Back to square one!

7315br

I saw X-Act at Natchez Shooting Supply this morning. They're pretty proud of it tho.

 

[7315br]

I saw X-Act at Natchez Shooting Supply this morning. They're pretty proud of it tho.

Thanks for the heads-up on the X-Act. I called them. They don’t offer lot numbers. They wouldn’t even try to find out. Said their warehouse was to large.

For the price they are asking I won’t buy anymore unless it shoots with a lot number I already have and know it works.

I did have one of the X-Act lot numbers this morning that didn’t shoot as well as my existing Midas+.

It seems the rifle specific has some truth to it.

7315br

 

[wildcat3d]

Thanks for the heads-up on the X-Act. I called them. They don’t offer lot numbers. They wouldn’t even try to find out. Said their warehouse was to large.

For the price they are asking I won’t buy anymore unless it shoots with a lot number I already have and know it works.

I did have one of the X-Act lot numbers this morning that didn’t shoot as well as my existing Midas+.

It seems the rifle specific has some truth to it.

7315br

They need a good warehouse manager...

 

[grauhanen]

It seems the rifle specific has some truth to it.

Good ammo is good ammo. Some lots of X-Act are poor lots that won't shoot in any rifle.
This explains why some lots of Midas outshoot some lots of X-Act or why some lots of CX outshoot some lots of Midas.

 

[CharlieNC]

Good ammo is good ammo. Some lots of X-Act are poor lots that won't shoot in any rifle.
This explains why some lots of Midas outshoot some lots of X-Act or why some lots of CX outshoot some lots of Midas.

That type of variability makes one question how much the manufacturers know about what they are doing, or if chasing the dollar has resulted in an overall reduction in quality.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

That type of variability makes one question how much the manufacturers know about what they are doing, or if chasing the dollar has resulted in an overall reduction in quality.

If what was said about lots not shooting in any rifle, then wouldn't there be an abundance of those lots on the shelves? also, the most recent X-act lots that was at three different sites were gone in a matter of days not weeks or months!
As far as Lapua they are trying to make the best they can otherwise if they were chasing the dollar then we would see more ammo being available, they went back to their old protocol of only producing 3-4 lost per run. doesn't compute to chasing the dollar!

Lee

 

[shoot4fun]

Thanks for the heads-up on the X-Act. I called them. They don’t offer lot numbers. They wouldn’t even try to find out. Said their warehouse was to large.

For the price they are asking I won’t buy anymore unless it shoots with a lot number I already have and know it works.

I did have one of the X-Act lot numbers this morning that didn’t shoot as well as my existing Midas+.

It seems the rifle specific has some truth to it.

7315br

They need a good warehouse manager...

I was in the industry and have been to the warehouse many times. The warehouse is huge!
You may not know or realize it but Natchez (internet retail) and Chattanooga Shooting Sports (National Distributor) are the same company and operate from the same warehouse. It would likely take the guy 30 minutes to go to the spot that ammo was in, check the lot numbers and get back to the phone. Then if you decided to order someone else had likely bought all they had.
In the times we live in today the best way to get "enough" of ammo that shoots great in your gun you will need to go to a test center that will allow you to buy a case of the good stuff once you find it.

 

[VLNBYR]

That type of variability makes one question how much the manufacturers know about what they are doing, or if chasing the dollar has resulted in an overall reduction in quality.

Suppose the variability isn't in the ammo but in the rifles, shooters and in the testing. As for the test centers if there is a new shipment and you aren't in the first 3 people to test that killer lot you just bought was a reject by the shooters ahead of you.

 

[MUP]

True. That's why some "bad" lots shoot "good" in other rifles. Test test test.

 

[grauhanen]

True. That's why some "bad" lots shoot "good" in other rifles. Test test test.

Only "some" bad lots shoot "good" in other rifles -- not all bad lots? There are bad lots of .22LR match ammo that don't shoot in any rifles. What's the difference between such bad lots?

Bad is bad. How would one barrel "correct" what others can't?