Reamer Pusher

[tobnpr]

For those that have used both, what’s your thoughts on the pros and cons of both setups?

Definitely make one and give it a try if you're having problems with your current method.
I did it twice- one flat-on-flat, and another with a ball bearing on the reamer holder pushed by a flat.
Didn't like either one of them, too much tendency to induce chatter.
Manson floating holder with a micrometer reamer stop for me. No reason for me to experiment any further for its own sake, chambers are perfect (provided I did my part on the setup). If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

As with most operations, there's no "right" or "wrong" way. At the end of the day if there's no runout with the indicator and the chamber's concentric it doesn't matter how you got there.

 

[WSnyder]

so the small end is mounted in the chuck which pushes against the shoulder. Thanks

Yes, exactly. I added pictures to my original post. FWIW I've never had this thing ever want to chatter or do anything weird. I hold it just like in the last picture. I get squeaky tight to the reamer chambers so it's not walking anywhere oversized. If I push too hard and it grabs it'll just spin out of my fingers. I hardly ever have it grab anymore. Practice makes perfect

 

[WSnyder]

The Bald Eagle does have self centering properties for sure, There is a pocket on the back of the reamer holder that has a polished stainless steel insert in it, And it has a morse taper pusher that has been turned to a ball end and polished, So it will have no resistance to following the reamer.

So yes the BE as you describe is self centering but I'm talking something subtly different about the Tooley/Bryant. It's in the weeds overthinking minutia so I won't go there

 

[hoz53]

Yes, exactly. I added pictures to my original post. FWIW I've never had this thing ever want to chatter or do anything weird. I hold it just like in the last picture. I get squeaky tight to the reamer chambers so it's not walking anywhere oversized. If I push too hard and it grabs it'll just spin out of my fingers. I hardly ever have it grab anymore. Practice makes perfect

thanks for the added explanation. i use the manson floating now and it has always produced good chambers for me but just the weight of it makes me wonder if that can pull it out of alignment.

 

[DaveTooley]

so thats the MT adapter on the right side of the handle? and you just drilled a hole in the end for the reamer? so the square end of the reamer hits the coned hole from the drill bit?
i need to make one of these to. thanks Dave

No the face of the pusher contacts the reamer holder. I use a Sinclair case holder for a neck turner. I extend one end. As has been mentioned a small tap wrench will do the same thing. I clamp on the round section so the reamer can spin.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I tried the pusher thing when I first started. I like my fingers right where they are, thank you very much. I bought a Jgs floating reamer holder and never looked back. Best decision I ever made (for me).

 

[ELR LVR]

I’m just learning but we used a tap handle to hold the reamer by hand , braced against the carriage and pushed with a dead center on the tailstock.
Seemed ok and did a good job but moving forward it looks like there are many options.

If you push with the flats of a drill chuck against the flats of the back of the reamer
it will allow the reamer to float and keep itself perfectly centered
(This works well for Live Piloted reamers that will start off following the bore )
You dont want to push with the live or dead center as the tailstock is never aligned perfectly
not to mention they can droop the more they are extended, and the tailstock will try to steer the back end of the reamer.
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By pushing flat against a flat, the 2 surfaces can glide againt each other while the reamer keeps itself aligned with the bore the whole time.
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Using this method I do not prebore, as I let the pilot guide the reamer the whole time
I don't know if I would want to prebore with this method and take a chance of the reamer getting cockeyed.
I think I would want a floating reamer holder if preboring

 

[DaveTooley]

I prebore every barrel after dialing in the throat. Most with a core drill. It's held rigid in the Haas and the front flexes to center up in the bore and the back is rigid and acts like a single point tool holding concentricity. If I don't have a core drill I dial in the throat, pre bore with a drill and then bore maybe .500" for concentricity. This procedure has never failed me.
Attached are pics of what I have for my manual machine and the Haas.

 

[JFrank]

If you push with the flats of a drill chuck against the flats of the back of the reamer
it will allow the reamer to float and keep itself perfectly centered
(This works well for Live Piloted reamers that will start off following the bore )
You dont want to push with the live or dead center as the tailstock is never aligned perfectly
not to mention they can droop the more they are extended, and the tailstock will try to steer the back end of the reamer.
------------
By pushing flat against a flat, the 2 surfaces can glide againt each other while the reamer keeps itself aligned with the bore the whole time.
------------
Using this method I do not prebore, as I let the pilot guide the reamer the whole time
I don't know if I would want to prebore with this method and take a chance of the reamer getting cockeyed.
I think I would want a floating reamer holder if preboring

Great information, thank you.
I dont have the reamer in front of me but as I recall the end has a cone so the dead center contact is dead center.
We pre bored as well, the reamer cut very smooth. IDK any more than that as I’m a total rookie.

Jim

 

[ELR LVR]

I prebore every barrel after dialing in the throat. Most with a core drill. It's held rigid in the Haas and the front flexes to center up in the bore and the back is rigid and acts like a single point tool holding concentricity. If I don't have a core drill I dial in the throat, pre bore with a drill and then bore maybe .500" for concentricity. This procedure has never failed me.
Attached are pics of what I have for my manual machine and the Haas.

View attachment 1668088View attachment 1668089

A mini tailstock.........in a toolholder
Now thats a novel idea !!! I like it
Like that brake on far right of frame too

 

[ELR LVR]

Great information, thank you.
I dont have the reamer in front of me but as I recall the end has a cone so the dead center contact is dead center.
We pre bored as well, the reamer cut very smooth. IDK any more than that as I’m a total rookie.

Jim

Put a dead center in your tailstock
then center up a tapered center in your 4 jaw
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see if the tips meet
then extend the tailstock a couple inches and see if the tips still meet
Thats one way
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Or you can put an indicator on your headstock spindle and do a sweep inside the bore of your tailstock
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Even though the tail end of the reamer may be coned, the cone of the dead center will try to force it into the tailstocks position, whereever that is. which may not be centerline with the headstock spindle
For instance:
I measured my tailstock and know it is .003" high compared to my spindle
So if I used the method you are describing I would cut an oversized chamber .006" large
at the rearend of the chamber

 

[DaveTooley]

One time in the past pushers were brought up, a guy showed a fist full of stitches he got from a reamer hanging and using a pusher. I’ve been hesitant to try one since.

My JGS holder works good, until the chattering starts…I had one bad deal with chatter, I setup like JFrank’s pics in an attempt to stabilize the rear of the reamer. I held onto the top versus potentially pinning my hand between the reamer “handle” and the compound. It didn’t work but my situation ended up being a reamer problem and not a setup or Judd problem.

Always fascinated by folks’ setup. Not saying anything is wrong but just how different we all do it.

I've never felt like it was in anyway dangerous. I have my hand on the reamer holder at all times for the tactile feedback. If I crowd the reamer too much it will spin. My hand is not on the reamer flutes and even if it was the cutting edge is on the trailing side.

 

[ELR LVR]

Great information, thank you.
I dont have the reamer in front of me but as I recall the end has a cone so the dead center contact is dead center.
We pre bored as well, the reamer cut very smooth. IDK any more than that as I’m a total rookie.

Jim

Here is a very VERY rude and crude but Quick and rather accurate way to tell if 2 pieces are on center
such as tool height or tail to spindle
Take your machinist rule and pinch it between the two pieces
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It wont tell you how much you are off, but will give an easy visual indicator if you are
I mainly use this for initially doing a quick pre-setting of tool height on center
When the blade is perfectly straight up and down you're pretty gnats ass close enough for cutting
and can fine tune after that.
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Notice in the first pic my tailstock is higher than my spindle

 

[Sniperhandle]

I prebore every barrel after dialing in the throat. Most with a core drill. It's held rigid in the Haas and the front flexes to center up in the bore and the back is rigid and acts like a single point tool holding concentricity. If I don't have a core drill I dial in the throat, pre bore with a drill and then bore maybe .500" for concentricity. This procedure has never failed me.
Attached are pics of what I have for my manual machine and the Haas.

View attachment 1668088View attachment 1668089

Is that one of those Kennametal Chamber Reamers?

 

[DaveTooley]

Is that one of those Kennametal Chamber Reamers?

No this one was made in the UK. Gifted to me by Dave Manson.

 

[WSnyder]

You dont want to push with the live or dead center as the tailstock is never aligned perfectly
not to mention they can droop the more they are extended, and the tailstock will try to steer the back end of the reamer.

Doesn’t matter if it’s not perfectly aligned (you do want to be relatively close ) when starting out. It still stays concentric as the reamer is in single point cutting mode. When you switch over to the pusher there’s still enough diameter left to go it all shakes out. Never had a problem here starting a chamber by driving with the center. As I said before I get squeaky tight to the reamer chambers. Can’t say he still does it but Mike Bryant switched at some point to driving the reamer with the center to start the chamber. Do it or not, but IMO it’s a viable option.

 

[ELR LVR]

Doesn’t matter if it’s not perfectly aligned (you do want to be relatively close ) when starting out. It still stays concentric as the reamer is in single point cutting mode. When you switch over to the pusher there’s still enough diameter left to go it all shakes out. Never had a problem here starting a chamber by driving with the center. As I said before I get squeaky tight to the reamer chambers. Can’t say he still does it but Mike Bryant switched at some point to driving the reamer with the center to start the chamber. Do it or not, but IMO it’s a viable option.

If its not a live pilot I can see your point with starting off with a dead center then switching over once the reamer has some depth.
If it is a live pilot, why use one method then switch over?
Since the pilot will keep it guided from start to finish
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However if cutting the whole length of the chamber with a dead center that is off center
it will try to guide the reamer off as well as flex the pilot shank and possibly cause bind in the pilot from revolving

 

[WSnyder]

I only use live pilot reamers, I pre-bore (step bore) everything.

It is just easier for me to start, hold and align the reamer using the center. No wobbles, little to no grabbing until the chamber has been established. Swap over to the pusher and finish. Swapping the center for the pusher takes what? 30 seconds?

 

[ELR LVR]

I only use live pilot reamers, I pre-bore (step bore) everything.

It is just easier for me to start, hold and align the reamer using the center. No wobbles, little to no grabbing until the chamber has been established. Swap over to the pusher and finish. Swapping the center for the pusher takes what? 30 seconds?

Def makes sense if youre pre-boring
I havent pre bored yet
I just let the reamer guide itself from start to finish - pushing
When I chamber Im not in a hurry even though I know my method does take longer
For me its kind of relaxing, a form of machinist therapy since it's just for me.
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I just can't feature myself starting anything off center when I know it's off center ya know?
In hopes it will center itself back up later
Maybe one day I'll try the prebore method,
but I do what I know works for the time being (meaning every chamber is true to reamer size)
And concentricity to the bore is paramount
Although I understand there is more than one method to chamber as we are seeing here by the guys who do it for hire and know shorter methods.

 

[WSnyder]

I just can't feature myself starting anything off center when I know it's off center ya know?
In hopes it will center itself back up later

It’s not off center in the sense that it’s not cutting a concentric on center hole. The reamer when pushed with a center is acting like a single point tool. There’s nothing to “center itself back up later” because the hole is not off center, it is round and concentric to the bore.