What about Rem 700 Stainless Steel's actions? How are their bolts assembled?
Rem 700 Bolts furnace brazed using copper alloy filler metal at about 2000 deg. F.
- Thread starter Ironworker
- Start date
ELR LVR
Silver $$ Contributor
I don't know the answer to that but...........
I used to "silver solder " Stainless electrical terminal lugs to stainless high heat/ high voltage leads.
The company I worked for supplied the materials so I do not know the specs on the Solder.
Some is harder/tougher than others.
I imagine silver solder would work just fine. Plus it might even match !!!
I believe the same way, as only the handle is stainless steel.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
^^^^^^
The bolt head is still chrome moly.
Pretty hard to beat CM for that application. There may be other steels, but not at a competitive cost
No way they are heated to 2000 degrees. That would destroy any heat treatment properties of the head and the cocking cam.
WSnyder
Silver $$ Contributor
Cu brazing alloys are typically done at ~1000°C (1800°F) give or take. I’ve seen references to the complete bolt assembly including the handle was furnace brazed all at the same time (Otteson book). The assembly was in a fully anealed state after brazing and heat treat was done after brazing at a lower temperature than the brazing temperature.
Is having the Bolt Tig welded a waste of time and money? The military for decades used the Rem700 as a Sniper rifle
WSnyder
Silver $$ Contributor
Depends. Do you trust the braze joint? I’d suggest most live a long life just as they came from the factory. Now if you want to fix or improve primary extraction then the handle will need to be repositioned and then you get to choose what re-attachment method you want. Tig is certainly a viable choice. Not sure if they still do it but Hollands chose to stay with a cadmium silver solder. If done right that’s a viable method as well. Cadmium silver solder flows better and can result in a potentially stronger joint but it’s poisonous so you need to ventilate and wear a respirator if you go that route. Others have had success with a non cad silver solder.
Okay, what does that actually mean? Is the “military” the be all end all on how things are done or should be done? I’d take it as a guide and with a grain of salt but wouldn’t hold my breath over what they do or have done.
My 700 hasn't failed me yet. As an Ironworker/welder, I know a weld is stronger than any braze. However, Murphy's law states, "If it's not broken, don't fix it."
Doesn't the military extensively test its arms before being trusted in combat?
Doesn't the military extensively test its arms before being trusted in combat?
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
The transformation temperature of your standard 4140 steel is 1600+F.
WSnyder
Silver $$ Contributor
So it seems possible to furnace braze the assembly and then run it through the heat treat process without affecting the Cu braze joint since the braze temp process is a fair amount higher temp than the heat treat temp.
Anyone who has been in the Army (or any other branch, I suppose) knows they have some good stuff and some not so good. Companies who get government contracts may not always strive for excellence once the papers are signed.
Still, Remingtons stayed together remarkably well for many years. The advent of the internet put an end to that though. WH
Have it tig welded. Then it won’t break and it will be timed correctly if it’s done by the right guy. That’s what Chad at longrifles inc does.
Time & tig
Time & tig
Hit it with an LN-8 running wide open with NS-3M .120 wire just to make sure its on there real good.
Hello Ken, how are you? I'm loving it in Nevada,but miss the good normal times in CA.
I used to work with silver soldering Cu tubing on refrigeration compressors. There are many silver solder alloys. You would be surprised at how low the melting temp is on some of them. Tig welding would be the least damaging to the bolt heat treatment and strength.
How does the factory do it.
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Wild Bill IV
Gold $$ Contributor
No one on this thread understands what prep work needs to be done on 4000 series chrome moly steel!!! Oil field drilling rig DERRICK towers are made of Chrome moly tubing (4330,4340, API standards)!! I had to Magnaflux all welding joints looking for cracks before that upper tower section could be returned to service!!! Found three cracks and spray painted orange on the bad joints!!! Then, the welder came in with a rose bud torch tip, slowly preheating the joint!! When the joint turn dull orange, he stick welded the crack!! Then, he slowly cooled the joint with the rose bud torch, moving it further away until the flame quit touching the joint!!! Same for race car and some bicycle frames made of 4000 series steels (4130, 4140)!!!
4000 SERIES STEELS HAVE TO BE SLOWLY PREHEATED (ANNEALED) BEFORE WELDING AND SLOWLY COOLED (TEMPERED) TO AVOID CRYSTALLIZATION AROUND THE WELD!!!! THIS IS WHY REMINGTON USES MULTIPLE FURNACES!!!
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Wild Bill,
Thanks for sharing. I know just enough about welding to be really dangerous! Lol.
Paul
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