A story about ammo and no justice with out deep pockets!

[Ringostar]

Lots of people complaining about this guy, and sticking up for Hornady. But I remember when lots of people were complaining that Hornady took someone else’s cartridge, and renamed it 6 ARC.

 

[shoot4fun]

Lots of people complaining about this guy, and sticking up for Hornady. But I remember when lots of people were complaining that Hornady took someone else’s cartridge, and renamed it 6 ARC.

Patented?
Proprietary?
Who had the resources too bring it to the masses?
Same with 300BLK. The company I worked for was able to bring out an AR for the masses in the caliber because Hornady got behind the production of ammunition.
No one said everything they do is their own idea but they are bringing things to the market that interest shooters. AND thing to market that open up markets for firearms manufacturers .
Neither of those is a bad thing.

 

[precision1]

I like buffalo bore they give me great ideas to load heavy cast bullets in my pistolas....lol
I want to say Hornady is subpar company to berger and Sierra but dang Ive got so many loads that shoot Hornady bullets better than anything else...,uhgaaa
Hornady bullets just shoot well in my rifles.ive heard alot of comp shooters call them subpar but my targets aren't lying ..for hunting rifles they shoot great.

berger is the minimum on comp guns

Even xtp pistol bullets aren't much better than fmj expansion wise is crap but they shoot damn good

I want to say Hornady sucks also but they seem to be the if all else doesn't work they get it done bullets


Hornady bullets are decent .work great in my non comp guns

Hornady headspace comparator is fine.cheaper than the others

Everything else sucks compared to other brands
There marketing 100+ lol

I mean look at 6.5 gheymore who could get so many queers to buy a rifle identical to everything else

 

[precision1]

When they drop 270 for 6.5 creed on all major economy rifle platforms .Hornady done something to persuade the hill Billy's.lmao

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

I like buffalo bore they give me great ideas to load heavy cast bullets in my pistolas....lol
I want to say Hornady is subpar company to berger and Sierra but dang Ive got so many loads that shoot Hornady bullets better than anything else...,uhgaaa
Hornady bullets just shoot well in my rifles.ive heard alot of comp shooters call them subpar but my targets aren't lying ..for hunting rifles they shoot great.

berger is the minimum on comp guns

Even xtp pistol bullets aren't much better than fmj expansion wise is crap but they shoot damn good

I want to say Hornady sucks also but they seem to be the if all else doesn't work they get it done bullets


Hornady bullets are decent .work great in my non comp guns

Hornady headspace comparator is fine.cheaper than the others

Everything else sucks compared to other brands
There marketing 100+ lol

I mean look at 6.5 gheymore who could get so many queers to buy a rifle identical to everything else

LMAO

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I used to have no use for Hornady bullets. But somewhere along the line they became great. I won't argue the fact any more. People are going to believe what they want (I have found), but some of the most impressive combinations I'm messing with these days are Hornady bullets.

On the recommendation of an A grade TR shooter, I have been getting good results -still working the load - with 75g .224 Hornady Match - not the ELD thingies. Shot a 1/2 Moa at 300 last weekend using H4895. I'll be comparing them with my usual 80g Sierra's next Sunday. The rifle used to shoot clean with the old A-Max, but I changed to Sierra's when A-Max disappeared.

 

[FNSafari]

The internet has opened up the "court of public" opinion trials in all its glory and goryness.

 

[Jeff Porter]

On the recommendation of an A grade TR shooter, I have been getting good results -still working the load - with 75g .224 Hornady Match - not the ELD thingies. Shot a 1/2 Moa at 300 last weekend using H4895. I'll be comparing them with my usual 80g Sierra's next Sunday. The rifle used to shoot clean with the old A-Max, but I changed to Sierra's when A-Max disappeared.

75 BTHP is a great bullet and I always shot tiny groups with it, but be wary in a tight bore with some age on it.
Rough, tight bores can cause them to go Poof on the way to the target. A little gray cloud about 40 yards out.

 

[6.5 forever]

I used to have no use for Hornady bullets. But somewhere along the line they became great. I won't argue the fact any more. People are going to believe what they want (I have found), but some of the most impressive combinations I'm messing with these days are Hornady bullets.

Great!
I quit using Hornady 6.5 147 bullets when they started falling apart. I often said I had no problems with them and would keep shooting them until I saw a problem. I wore out 3 barrels worth, no problems. Then 40% failure. Then when I talked to them, they denied there were any problems and it was the first they heard about it.....

 

[bluealtered]

Thank you very much for posting that. It's a shame that power and money does this to people, however some people will never have have enough of either one of those things.
The complex that creates this in people is an interesting subject, but the results of it are simply sad to see.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lots of people complaining about this guy, and sticking up for Hornady. But I remember when lots of people were complaining that Hornady took someone else’s cartridge, and renamed it 6 ARC.

I think a lot of posters missed the point-
There was a time when a handshake sealed a deal and was unbreakable. this guy had a written agreement, but his friend decide fame was more important.

Lee

 

[drop_point]

I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. I'll take it all as true because I don't have any reason to believe otherwise. The part about Steve Hornady calling him is a real thumb in the eye. If his friend cancelled the contract, he should have the nuts to say, "I'm breaking our contract."

The lesson is NEVER do business with friends. Handshakes and deals don't mean what they used to.

But let us think about other things here:

What happened between Hornady and Stoney Point? I don't know.

How about the COVID memos? Steve Hornady literally lied and told us to disbelieve our own eyes; he didn't really include in the first memo what we read with our own eyes.

Then Hornady decided to leave out their under performing ammunition such as the 7mm PRC.

Hornady blatantly ripped off the Henderson trimmer knowing Henderson Precision is a small company and can't afford to litigate.

Then Hornady literally copied bullets from Berger and Sierra and told us its the same or better.

I've got all sorts of Hornady bullets and rifles chambered in their cartridges; 17 HMR, .204 Ruger, several 6.5 Creedmoor chambered rifles, two 6.5 PRC rifles and a ton of bullets.

I've had multiple 143 gr ELD-X bullets fail.

Is this guy's story true? I don't know. Is Hornady a good company? Well...


Where there is smoke, there is fire.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I think a lot of posters missed the point-
There was a time when a handshake sealed a deal and was unbreakable. this guy had a written agreement, but his friend decide fame was more important.

Lee

No, I didn't miss that point. That was then and this is now. You can enter a deal even with a signed contract. If you have enough money that contract can be broken. It's what the World has come to.

 

[davidjoe]

When he relates this story to us, he doesn’t seem to want to focus on why the judge got this decision “wrong.” My recollection is that he didn’t sound surprised that he lost the trial, and the way he said that Hornady won, didn’t strike me as suppressing the feeling that a legal injustice occurred, after decades to reflect on this.

Sometimes the trial is the first time the opposing party actually pays any attention to the other side’s legal arguments. Some litigants are fueled by emotion and surround themselves with “yes” people. (I heard one in the background.). Some litigants have threatened a lawsuit to try to resolve a dispute, then follow through like a poker player making a “continuation bet” on a very marginal hand.

We have to assume that even if he represented himself (pro se) he submitted any contract(s) he claimed were breached to the judge. As I envision his position, this was not a case about whether some particular alleged act happened or not, for the judge to decide, rather it was a case about what each side agreed go and what the legal rights and obligations actually were, with respect to each other.

Hornady had more resources to fight, well, that can’t change the terms of any written agreement that existed. As the plaintiff, he went first. A plaintiff can rehearse their case and choose their trial strategy, while the defendant must roll with the punches in cross examination and wait their turn.

No case can rely on pointing out disparity in size. It’s about proving the elements of a legal claim, which the plaintiff, not the defendant selected to assert. Not saying that was his strategy, but he does make a lot of it in the video.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

He needs to just move on and promote his current business. I am assuming by the number of us that even took time to watch this video, we have respect of Buffalo Bore as being a solid manufacturer.

 

[dellet]

What got lost in the weeds was that the whole reason for the video was to support someone else who was recently wronged by Hornady. Basically a “if you don’t believe they would that to someone, here’s what they did to me.”

The intended message of the video, that Hornady apparently blackballed or possibly tried to ruin a reputation over a refused endorsement got lost in a look at me moment.

 

[drop_point]

When he relates this story to us, he doesn’t seem to want to focus on why the judge got this decision “wrong.” My recollection is that he didn’t sound surprised that he lost the trial, and the way he said that Hornady won, didn’t strike me as suppressing the feeling that a legal injustice occurred, after decades to reflect on this.

Sometimes the trial is the first time the opposing party actually pays any attention to the other side’s legal arguments. Some litigants are fueled by emotion and surround themselves with “yes” people. (I heard one in the background.). Some litigants have threatened a lawsuit to try to resolve a dispute, then follow through like a poker player making a “continuation bet” on a very marginal hand.

We have to assume that even if he represented himself (pro se) he submitted any contract(s) he claimed were breached to the judge. As I envision his position, this was not a case about whether some particular alleged act happened or not, for the judge to decide, rather it was a case about what each side agreed go and what the legal rights and obligations actually were, with respect to each other.

Hornady had more resources to fight, well, that can’t change the terms of any written agreement that existed. As the plaintiff, he went first. A plaintiff can rehearse their case and choose their trial strategy, while the defendant must roll with the punches in cross examination and wait their turn.

No case can rely on pointing out disparity in size. It’s about proving the elements of a legal claim, which the plaintiff, not the defendant selected to assert. Not saying that was his strategy, but he does make a lot of it in the video.

Ever been to civil court? You can have a contract and the other side's lawyers can pull in about fifty reasons why that contract wasn't legal and bring in expert witnesses to prove their case. Its all about framing the case in a way which a judge and/or jury find the argument more compelling than its rebuttal.

I can assure you, if you think "the right thing" comes from litigation or even the legal thing, you're sorely mistaken. There is a reason for the adage, "you can have all the justice you can afford". My father was awarded by jury the largest settlement our county had ever awarded, but lawyers got it thrown out because of a typo in which two numbers on a legal description were inverted (though provided correctly elsewhere in the document).

Contracts don't mean squat unless you have two parties willing to honor it.

 

[joshb]

What got lost in the weeds was that the whole reason for the video was to support someone else who was recently wronged by Hornady. Basically a “if you don’t believe they would that to someone, here’s what they did to me.”

The intended message of the video, that Hornady apparently blackballed or possibly tried to ruin a reputation over a refused endorsement got lost in a look at me moment.

Yup! Large Companies have been “legally” bulldozing smaller companies for EVER! This is his story of what Hornady did to him. A larger bankroll hiring lots of lawyers usually beats the little guy into the dirt. A similar injustice is happening in Blue states. Endless Public money is being used by those in power to strip the gun rights of its citizens. Chinese manufacturers don’t even bother to fight over “legal” patent laws. They just mass produce copies of products, sell them cheaper and hope they don’t get sued.

 

[nakneker]

I don’t blame the guy for being upset, he may say he doesn’t hold a grudge but he obviously does and for good reason imo. He had a good idea, got contracts, borrowed money and made a go at it. That’s all something most people would never do, following your vision and ideas is a road less traveled and takes courage. I give him kudos for that. He success drew the attention, that will always happen.

He’s bit naive though. His fledgling company trying to stop Hornady is like the guy standing in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square. That’s the ugly side of business, those with the capital, drive and smarts typically win. Steve was straight up with him, I’m sure that was nightmare call.

I don’t agree with everything Hornady does, it’s not the first time they have taken an idea that spawned elsewhere and ran with it. That being said I’d rather see them prosper than fail. Like their products or not the shooting community benefits from them and their ambition. Yes, there will be casualties along the way but that’s true for any line of work, it won’t magically stop either. The strong and forward thinking will survive.

I shoot a lot of Hornady bullets, in my levers and pistols mostly. Their positives out way their negatives imo but that’s just my opinion, yours may vary, nothing wrong with that. I’m glad they are here.

 

[davidjoe]

Ever been to civil court? You can have a contract and the other side's lawyers can pull in about fifty reasons why that contract wasn't legal and bring in expert witnesses to prove their case. Its all about framing the case in a way which a judge and/or jury find the argument more compelling than its rebuttal.

I can assure you, if you think "the right thing" comes from litigation or even the legal thing, you're sorely mistaken. There is a reason for the adage, "you can have all the justice you can afford". My father was awarded by jury the largest settlement our county had ever awarded, but lawyers got it thrown out because of a typo in which two numbers on a legal description were inverted (though provided correctly elsewhere in the document).

Contracts don't mean squat unless you have two parties willing to honor it.

I’m familiar with it.