Presidential Executive Order Re Second Amendment

[284winner]

People seem to be forgetting their basic civics. All power falls to the states except where specifically given to the federal government. No state can over write the Bill of Rights.

The right to keep and bear is not a state's rights issue. Any law written n a state to infringe on the 2nd amendment is unconstitutional by definition.

But what we have now is a system of courts that rely on precedence more than they do the actual law. This is where the flaw lies. We should be attacking the notion that precedence overrides the Constitution. It absolutely does not. The very definition of "progressivism" is based on legal precedent. We should be attacking the very root of the first case that established precedent to where the law goes awry. Stop fighting over fringe issues and go to the very root of the law.

You are 100% correct. The Constitution is concrete. One side can't dismantle the 2nd amendment anymore than the other can dismantle the 14th. Birth right is in the Constitution as is the Right to Bear arms is in the 2nd. How about we just leave the constitution alone and follow it as it reads. Both sides wants their own way with the constitution.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Notes:

It was Jefferson who said "democracy is the second worst form of Government. But, all the rest are tied for first...".

The drinking and driving thing posted above: get a DUI in Europe and see what happens.

The initial post by Trump is very far reaching in its' capacity to restore the Constitution to "as written and legally amended...". The Constitution, as written and legally amended does allow for the removal of judges, as all levels, where their actions violate it.

Opinion: the People do have ultimate power in this country. It is called the Ballot Box, (and recall petitions). Politicians only think they are above reproach (and the law) because we have not removed them.

If our ancestors had obeyed the "laws of the land" 250 years ago, we would still be British subjects.

Savor Trump's directive, and dream about how far it could reach.

ISS

Thank God we don't have a "democracy". The Constitution outlines a government that is a Republic of states. But then again, that hasn't existed since the North attacked the South.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

You are 100% correct. The Constitution is concrete. One side can't dismantle the 2nd amendment anymore than the other can dismantle the 14th. Birth right is in the Constitution as is the Right to Bear arms is in the 2nd. How about we just leave the constitution alone and follow it as it reads. Both sides wants their own way with the constitution.

Who’s trying to dismantle the 14th? How?

 

[284winner]

Who’s trying to dismantle the 14th? How?

My meaning was that the birthright thing is in the 14th amendment of the Constitution like the right to bear arms is in the 2nd. Yes the illegals and one side is gaming the system by the language but that's just how the 14th is written. Just like the left can't say "AR's weren't around when the 2nd amendment was written and they shouldn't be allowed because they didn't exist at that time " is no different than illegals weren't trying to game the system of the 14th amendment when that was written like they are today.

 

[mrjdasr]

My meaning was that the birthright thing is in the 14th amendment of the Constitution like the right to bear arms is in the 2nd. Yes the illegals and one side is gaming the system by the language but that's just how the 14th is written. Just like the left can't say "AR's weren't around when the 2nd amendment was written and they shouldn't be allowed because they didn't exist at that time " is no different than illegals weren't trying to game the system of the 14th amendment when that was written like they are today.

hit the nail [law] right on the head. simple solution, dont let the pregnant persons across the border in the first place

 

[J.d. Popkes]

My meaning was that the birthright thing is in the 14th amendment of the Constitution like the right to bear arms is in the 2nd. Yes the illegals and one side is gaming the system by the language but that's just how the 14th is written. Just like the left can't say "AR's weren't around when the 2nd amendment was written and they shouldn't be allowed because they didn't exist at that time " is no different than illegals weren't trying to game the system of the 14th amendment when that was written like they are today.

Are you saying that, when people come here illegally, and breed, the anchor baby should be a natural born citizen with constitutional rights?

And equating that somehow to the 2nd amendment?

 

[bobinpa]

I can't debate with someone who dosen't see the difference between a stupid drug inducted act with no intent to cause harm, versus the psychopathic act of robbing someone in their home using a firearm with threat of death. The penalty for the latter crime should be death and not eventual probation with 2a rights restored.

I can absolutely see the difference but my point is that nothing is ever cut and dry. To expand on the example you gave, what would you think if the perpetrator in your example, was an 18 year old who was drunk that was dared to do it by his peers. That would make it a drug induced act. He was coerced while under the influence and nobody was hurt in the end... Would you want to hang him?

Lets say he goes to jail for 10 years for it. He gets out at 29. Gets married. Has kids. His kids want to hunt and shoot but he can't teach them because he can't own a gun. Now his punishment effects his kids...

Maybe my stance comes from experience. Maybe I know someone who spent almost ten years in prison and got out completely reformed. Should his punishment be life long? Should it effect his kids now too?

My point originally is that, yes, I feel every single gun law is unconstitutional. They are all restrictions on a God given constitutional right. Your counter point included committing a crime, which involves a different set of rules and really isn't much of a fair comparison.

 

[284winner]

Are you saying that, when people come here illegally, and breed, the anchor baby should be a natural born citizen with constitutional rights?

And equating that somehow to the 2nd amendment?

NOPE. I'm 100% against it but when that amendment gets changed, how can anybody complain when the left wants to change the 2nd amendment keeping ARs and semi auto weapons off the list of guns we can own ? Be careful what can of worms get opened with this kind of thing. I think this birth right thing will get worked out in the US Supreme Court eventually but for now, let's not start changing the constitution.

 

[Terrykuz]

Promises made promises kept. Amazing patriot for the constitution.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

NOPE. I'm 100% against it but when that amendment gets changed, how can anybody complain when the left wants to change the 2nd amendment keeping ARs and semi auto weapons off the list of guns we can own ? Be careful what can of worms get opened with this kind of thing. I think this birth right thing will get worked out in the US Supreme Court eventually but for now, let's not start changing the constitution.

I must have missed seeing where there’s talk of repealing the 14th amendment. I just assumed that if you were here illegally and gave birth, constitutional rights do not apply? Are we talking about the same thing? Please advise.

 

[284winner]

I must have missed seeing where there’s talk of repealing the 14th amendment. I just assumed that if you were here illegally and gave birth, constitutional rights do not apply? Are we talking about the same thing? Please advise.

Yes I'm on board. It's not being repealed but the Pres talked about changing the language in the 14th amendment in an interview so it clearly states illegal immigrants that cross the border and have children exempts them from being US citizens. That's what I'm talking about. It's obviously an act that would be scamming the system but the 14th amendment doesn't specifically state that precise language. Like you said, the anchor baby theory. At this point only means the baby is American and parents and family must be deported back across the border. Course to the left, that's inhumane. Don't worry about all the crime, rapes and deaths created by the illegal criminals. Separating illegals from their mom's tops the inhumane definition apparently. I think it'll get worked out by the current admin but I don't want to see any amendments adjusted or changed. It opens up too much BS for future leaders to do the same. I'm out on this thread. Too political at this point. Shoot straight.

 

[FNSafari]

The Dem rump swabs are accusing Trump of mis-using power, taking illegal executive actions but what have they been doing for years by enacting illegal laws to eradicate the intent of the 2nd amendment and then using the power of the state to crush firearms owners. Hideous behavior and they should be ashamed and held accountable for it.

 

[jwv2001]

If our ancestors had obeyed the "laws of the land" 250 years ago, we would still be British subjects.

250 years ago? How about in the 30's when the cripple FDR made such an effort to get rid of the constitution and rule like his totalitarian heroes Mussolini and Hitler. Then let Churchill give half of Germany to Stalin when he was in his Biden moment.

 

[jdh47]

Once upon a time a pawnshop in Dallas abbreviated Tx. on a 4473 and the ATF went ape on an audit. Wanted it spelled out. The owner popped off "well my mail comes abbreviated Tx. '. They went ballistic. Told the owner that they'd shut his business down and confiscate all his firearms if he didn't comply. We have come to a point where our government exercises far too much power and wields it in ways that were never intended in our Constitution.
I must confess I lived much of my life just wanting to be left out of politics but the time has come to get involved or loose what freedoms we have left. Ron Reagan said "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."
The last administration has reminded us just how fragile freedom truly is. Our elected President is engaged in a task many of us have dreamed of for years, getting the corruption out of government and paying the debt and hopefully protecting the Second Amendment. May God be with him for he'll need all the help he can get.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Once upon a time a pawnshop in Dallas abbreviated Tx. on a 4473 and the ATF went ape on an audit. Wanted it spelled out. The owner popped off "well my mail comes abbreviated Tx. '. They went ballistic. Told the owner that they'd shut his business down and confiscate all his firearms if he didn't comply. We have come to a point where our government exercises far too much power and wields it in ways that were never intended in our Constitution.
I must confess I lived much of my life just wanting to be left out of politics but the time has come to get involved or loose what freedoms we have left. Ron Reagan said "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

 

[chop house]

Ammunition and accessories were, and probably are still sold at a higher profit margin than new firearms.

Yup. Which makes more money, a new ink jet printer or lifetime supply of ink cartridges? A Keurig or several years worth of k- cups? Ad nauseum...

 

[JTEX]

Yes I'm on board. It's not being repealed but the Pres talked about changing the language in the 14th amendment in an interview so it clearly states illegal immigrants that cross the border and have children exempts them from being US citizens. That's what I'm talking about. It's obviously an act that would be scamming the system but the 14th amendment doesn't specifically state that precise language. Like you said, the anchor baby theory. At this point only means the baby is American and parents and family must be deported back across the border. Course to the left, that's inhumane. Don't worry about all the crime, rapes and deaths created by the illegal criminals. Separating illegals from their mom's tops the inhumane definition apparently. I think it'll get worked out by the current admin but I don't want to see any amendments adjusted or changed. It opens up too much BS for future leaders to do the same. I'm out on this thread. Too political at this point. Shoot straight.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Don't need to change anything.... The 14th is correct as is....the people gaming it are wrong. Illegals have NOT placed themselves "under the jusidiction" of the United States.... They are "in the jurisdiction" of the United States. Words matter!

By entering illegally they, themselves are "outside the jurisdiction", they have not submitted to the jurisdiction of the united States

Intent also matters....the 14th was written to guarantee citizen ship to the freed slaves.

 

[dryhumor]

I’m still not understanding how suppressors are a regulated item under NFA, as they are merely an accessory. Other than generating $200…

My hearing loss has become worse to the point I’m starting to use closed captioning for the TV sometimes. Mostly when the Tinnitus is too loud to hear…

 

[bighorn06]

Maybe I am dreaming, but I hope and think Trump is gathering all the laws and regulations that he thinks are unlawful under the 2nd amendment and file a lawsuit in Federal Courts to repeal all of them at once. Yes it will be one hell of a fight. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. And It all came tumbling down when Jesus appeared on the scene. It will be interesting!

 

[DirtySteve]

So if a home invader convicted of aggravated assault is released on probation he can now walk into a gun shop and buy a Benelli M4?

I think it was Adam’s or maybe Jefferson that said, “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Keep all violent criminals in prison. Problem solved. I would give them two strikes not three.