Induction Annealing Results With Tempilaq

[Bidwell]

Hi, working on a induction annealer. Using one of the many 1000 watt zvs amazon boards and a 48 volt 600 watt power supply. Working good enough so far (i think) but wanted to get some input on my results. Below are the images of a case with tempilaq. This is with the shoulder and top of the case in the coil, 6 second anneal time. Red = 1000 f, green = 750 f, grey = 450 f. I get similar results at 4 or 4.5 seconds with the case in the center of the coil. When annealing in a dark room, I've timed it out so annealing stops right before the top of the case begins to glow or maybe just the most subtle of glow.

Anyone with experience with annealing have any input? Should the 750 paint be showing more signs of change farther down the shoulder, etc.? Appreciate any opinions/advice. Edit: Working with 308 lapua brass

 

[Bidwell]

Here are the results at 4.5 seconds with the case in the middle of the coil. Actually pretty different than 4 seconds in the middle of the coil, which is more similar to the 6 seconds with just the shoulder and top of case in the coil.

Feel like having more color change in the 750 tempilaq down the shoulder is better but not entirely sure.

 

[Andy Work]

Most people recommend putting the tempilaq on the inside of the neck for more accurate results. I adjusted mine with the 750 tempilaq but got split necks after a few loadings on my 6BR brass in a factory chamber. I added 3/10ths of a second to the timer, over the 750 degrees, and have not had anymore problems.

 

[moondog]

Your putting WAY to much Tempilaq on it.
A thin stripes on the neck and shoulder is all you need. 750 should get you close when it just turns clear. Play with the dwell time till you get it right.

 

[Bidwell]

Most people recommend putting the tempilaq on the inside of the neck for more accurate results. I adjusted mine with the 750 tempilaq but got split necks after a few loadings on my 6BR brass in a factory chamber. I added 3/10ths of a second to the timer, over the 750 degrees, and have not had anymore problems.

Sounds good, I read tempilaq on the outside was ok for induction annealers but ill try on the inside. So you timed to when the 750 goes clear + 3/10 of a second? Thanks for the advice!

I should of noted that I'm annealing 308 lapua brass.

 

[Bidwell]

Your putting WAY to much Tempilaq on it.
A thin stripes on the neck and shoulder is all you need. 750 should get you close when it just turns clear. Play with the dwell time till you get it right.

Thanks! I was wondering about that. The 450 paints on really thin and easily but the 750 and 1000 f don't seem to adhere to the case very well so I tend to lay it on thicker. Maybe I can try really scrubing the case with alcohol or rough up the surface slightly. It seems like the 400 goes really clear but the 700 and 1000 have more of a burnt look. I did suspect the thickness had something to do with that. Have you or anyone tried using the tempilaq thinner? I wonder if it would help with this.

 

[TTE]

Have you or anyone tried using the tempilaq thinner? I wonder if it would help with this.

The thinner works.
I have no idea what it is, probably just paint thinner or alcohol or something like that ..... but not sure.

When my thinner runs out, I will try mixing a small amount with some alcohol as a test

 

[Bidwell]

The thinner works.
I have no idea what it is, probably just paint thinner or alcohol or something like that ..... but not sure.

When my thinner runs out, I will try mixing a small amount with some alcohol as a test

Thanks! I'll probably order some thinner and give it a shot

 

[Ranger188]

@Dave M.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Sounds good, I read tempilaq on the outside was ok for induction annealers but ill try on the inside. So you timed to when the 750 goes clear + 3/10 of a second? Thanks for the advice!

I should of noted that I'm annealing 308 lapua brass.

Remember??? Getting the annealing right isn't just about temperature, it's about the amount of time at the particular temperature. The moment 750°F tempilaq turns clear is a good starting point and can tell you how far down the case that temperature goes. Using that tempilaq didn't get me the results I was hoping for. Having gone to the "glow method" has worked much better for me, though with this too, time is still a factor. I'm pretty sure using the glow method can work well using your induction annealer and using the tempilaq to give you some idea how far the temperature is going down the case body. . .or not.

 

[Webster]

Hi, working on a induction annealer. Using one of the many 1000 watt zvs amazon boards and a 48 volt 600 watt power supply. Working good enough so far (i think) but wanted to get some input on my results. Below are the images of a case with tempilaq. This is with the shoulder and top of the case in the coil, 6 second anneal time. Red = 1000 f, green = 750 f, grey = 450 f. I get similar results at 4 or 4.5 seconds with the case in the center of the coil. When annealing in a dark room, I've timed it out so annealing stops right before the top of the case begins to glow or maybe just the most subtle of glow.

Anyone with experience with annealing have any input? Should the 750 paint be showing more signs of change farther down the shoulder, etc.? Appreciate any opinions/advice. Edit: Working with 308 lapua brassView attachment 1612313
View attachment 1612314
View attachment 1612315

You cannot anneal at 750F. You only need a dot or tiny strip of Tempilaq. It's put on the inside of the neck for flame annealing because it is not supposed to be used with a 2000F flame on it. You are not reading the good info on this website. Anneal until the neck gets red in a dark room and you should be ok. The chart will give you an idea of what happens for various amounts of cold working, temp and time. The time is total time in the furnace at constant temp. I know it isn't flash annealing. If very little happens for minutes at constant temp it's impossible to flash anneal at the same temp.

The chart was put togeter by the Metallurgy Dept. at Illinois University. Kind of busy charts but they are good data. I could enlarge one of the squares so it's easier to examine. The top half of the chart is hardness related, the bottom is grain size change.

I have the complete report with about 60 pages if anyone wants to see it. Abut 10 charts for various amounts of starting cold work. I would have to check if it's copy writed. Don't know why you would put it on internet if you didn't want people to copy it.

 

[Webster]

You cannot anneal at 750F. You only need a dot or tiny strip of Tempilaq. It's put on the inside of the neck for flame annealing because it is not supposed to be used with a 2000F flame on it. You are not reading the good info on this website. Anneal until the neck gets red in a dark room and you should be ok. The chart will give you an idea of what happens for various amounts of cold working, temp and time. The time is total time in the furnace at constant temp. I know it isn't flash annealing. If very little happens for minutes at constant temp it's impossible to flash anneal at the same temp.

The chart was put togeter by the Metallurgy Dept. at Illinois University. Kind of busy charts but they are good data. I could enlarge one of the squares so it's easier to examine. The top half of the chart is hardness related, the bottom is grain size change.

I have the complete report with about 60 pages if anyone wants to see it. Abut 10 charts for various amounts of starting cold work. I would have to check if it's copy writed. Don't know why you would put it on internet if you didn't want people to copy it.

easier to read

 

[Evlshnngns]

Look at the scortch line left from an amp annealer. The toasty marks on nato rifle brass. Watch some of the Erik Cortina videos of over anealing.

I go for a dull red glow. I haven't bought templaq and don't plan on it.

 

[Bidwell]

You cannot anneal at 750F. You only need a dot or tiny strip of Tempilaq. It's put on the inside of the neck for flame annealing because it is not supposed to be used with a 2000F flame on it. You are not reading the good info on this website. Anneal until the neck gets red in a dark room and you should be ok. The chart will give you an idea of what happens for various amounts of cold working, temp and time. The time is total time in the furnace at constant temp. I know it isn't flash annealing. If very little happens for minutes at constant temp it's impossible to flash anneal at the same temp.

The chart was put togeter by the Metallurgy Dept. at Illinois University. Kind of busy charts but they are good data. I could enlarge one of the squares so it's easier to examine. The top half of the chart is hardness related, the bottom is grain size change.

I have the complete report with about 60 pages if anyone wants to see it. Abut 10 charts for various amounts of starting cold work. I would have to check if it's copy writed. Don't know why you would put it on internet if you didn't want people to copy it.

View attachment 1612393

Thanks for the info and charts. Yeah the red glow seems like fairly dependable way of going about this, although theres some debate about this. It seems like people have been using that technique for quite a while with success though so cant argue with that. I like using the tempilaq as a safe guard but it's tricky to work with. Not sure why the 450 melts as advertised but the 750 and 1000f burn. They are thicker so I'm guessing that could be an issue. I did buy some thinner so we'll see if that changes anything. I tried using acetone to thin and it seemed to paint better but still didn't cause the 750 and 1000f to melt like the 450. End of the day, I like seeing the 450f tempilaq not melt passed the half way point on the case just for peace of mind and guess the best course is to watch for a red glow. To confirm, do you prefer when the next just starts turning red or when it it's really starting to turn a deep red? Somewhere between?

 

[Bidwell]

Look at the scortch line left from an amp annealer. The toasty marks on nato rifle brass. Watch some of the Erik Cortina videos of over anealing.

I go for a dull red glow. I haven't bought templaq and don't plan on it.

Thanks! That seems to be a safe bet. Yeah I've seen some the Erik Cortins vids, very helpful.

 

[Bidwell]

Remember??? Getting the annealing right isn't just about temperature, it's about the amount of time at the particular temperature. The moment 750°F tempilaq turns clear is a good starting point and can tell you how far down the case that temperature goes. Using that tempilaq didn't get me the results I was hoping for. Having gone to the "glow method" has worked much better for me, though with this too, time is still a factor. I'm pretty sure using the glow method can work well using your induction annealer and using the tempilaq to give you some idea how far the temperature is going down the case body. . .or not.

I think a combo of glow and tempilaq is useful. As I mentioned on some other posts, my 750 just burns and it doesn't melt like the 450f paint. I've seen other posts mention the type of behavior as well so sounds like it could be normal.

 

[Webster]

Thanks for the info and charts. Yeah the red glow seems like fairly dependable way of going about this, although theres some debate about this. It seems like people have been using that technique for quite a while with success though so cant argue with that. I like using the tempilaq as a safe guard but it's tricky to work with. Not sure why the 450 melts as advertised but the 750 and 1000f burn. They are thicker so I'm guessing that could be an issue. I did buy some thinner so we'll see if that changes anything. I tried using acetone to thin and it seemed to paint better but still didn't cause the 750 and 1000f to melt like the 450. End of the day, I like seeing the 450f tempilaq not melt passed the half way point on the case just for peace of mind and guess the best course is to watch for a red glow. To confirm, do you prefer when the next just starts turning red or when it it's really starting to turn a deep red? Somewhere between?

Hard to define red. When the neck is an obvious red not orangeI give it maybe 1-2 more seconds. I feel this is the best I can do. No reason to use templaq. I do a total of 9-10 seconds with a hand held propane torch. I don't want to get it more complicated. This just works and I know I'm in the annealing range. It's impossible to over heat the case body or case head. You cannot get the body above an annealing temp.
I set the torch on the basement floor and hold each case in the case holder for my neck turning tool. The holder is put in a small battery powered drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. A quick twist of the case holder, pull the trigger and the case flips out on the floor to cool.

 

[Bidwell]

Hard to define red. When the neck is an obvious red not orangeI give it maybe 1-2 more seconds. I feel this is the best I can do. No reason to use templaq. I do a total of 9-10 seconds with a hand held propane torch. I don't want to get it more complicated. This just works and I know I'm in the annealing range. It's impossible to over heat the case body or case head. You cannot get the body above an annealing temp.
I set the torch on the basement floor and hold each case in the case holder for my neck turning tool. The holder is put in a small battery powered drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. A quick twist of the case holder, pull the trigger and the case flips out on the floor to cool.

Sounds good, thanks! One thing im having some issues with is getting the neck to turn red without overheating the mouth. I think it may just take more experiments with case position and voltage. I was also wondering about the catastrophic failure I've heard mentioned as a risk of over annealing. While this seams easy to avoid, I'm trying to understand what makes a failure catastrophic from over annealing worse than say a case head separation.

 

[Webster]

Hard to define red. When the neck is an obvious red not orangeI give it maybe 1-2 more seconds. I feel this is the best I can do. No reason to use templaq. I do a total of 9-10 seconds with a hand held propane torch. I don't want to get it more complicated. This just works and I know I'm in the annealing range. It's impossible to over heat the case body or case head. You cannot get the body above an annealing temp.
I set the torch on the basement floor and hold each case in the case holder for my neck turning tool. The holder is put in a small battery powered drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. A quick twist of the case holder, pull the trigger and the case flips out on the floor to cool.

Sounds good, thanks! One thing im having some issues with is getting the neck to turn red without overheating the mouth. I think it may just take more experiments with case position and voltage. I was also wondering about the catastrophic failure I've heard mentioned as a risk of over annealing. While this seams easy to avoid, I'm trying to understand what makes a failure catastrophic from over annealing worse than say a case head separation.

I know what you mean the end of the case mouth gets red first. I ignore it and just go for the bulk of the neck. A couple seconds hotter at the case mouth shouldn't change the amount of annealing. It takes over a minute at about 1050F to see a very small change in hardness based on the Univerity of Ill charts.

 

[TTE]

The higher tempilaq is probably burning because it is too thick.
It should be like water when applying, then let it dry completely.
A case that has been annealed in the web area will cause a catastrophic failure .... as in boom, explosion catastrophic.

Use the 450 as an indicator. Paint it down the side of the case to see how far down the case you are heating up.

IMO ... the heat should not go very far past the neck shoulder junction.