Just a bore cleaning question-6PPC

[TIMO]

A little background for this question. This is just for my FYI and will test my cleaning process (interval) once I start developing a load and shoot a few matches with the 6PPC.

I have been shooting both a 30BR and 30BRS in UBR matches and local club matches which are 40 rounds for score.
When shooting a UBR match, I usually clean the bore between the 100 and 200 yard match. Never an issue with accuracy dropping off any. Powder I usually shoot is N130 or H-4198.

Just got a new to me 6PPC. Have not done any load work or anything with it yet.
At UBR and local club matches I see a lot of 6PPC shooters cleaning any where from between relays to less frequent during the match.

The Question: Does the 6PPC inherently produce more fouling (carbon/copper) than the 30 BR, or do shooters have to clean more frequently due to accuracy dropping off quicker, or just want to have a clean bore for each relay?

I know there are a lot of variables involved and various IMO, .etc.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[TRSR8]

Some guys feel barrel dependent. A new barrel you can go a few relays or after an agg.
After a few hundred, guys seem to clean every relay. Newer barrels may initially lay down copper and after a few dozen rounds stop, the odd barrel coppers, you just need to check and keep ahead of it if it shows.
The two Kriegers I just screwed on, one laid down a bit the first 20-30 then stopped, the second never did. Just don’t let it get to layers of copper/ carbon.
Quite often a new barrel needs a couple hundred rounds to show it’s potential.

 

[LHSmith]

I have shot .222, 6 PPC, and .30 BR in registered score competition. What I have found is the .30 BR can be fired the full match without cleaning, the 6 PPC needs to be cleaned halfway through, and the .222 after every match relay.

 

[Eric Leonard]

I shoot UBR with a 6 PPC , i always clean ever target but i dont try to get it clean clean, I run 3 wet patches with Wipeout 3-4 dry patches and then 1 wet patch with Kroil and 2 more dry patches, then put the first 2 rounds in the dirt ,shoot a couple sighters and go with it.
I’ve tried cleaning at the end of 100 yards and I’ve tried cleaning ever 2nd target but depending on conditions I’m bad to shoot a crap load of sighters and if I shoot 2 targets I might have 40 rounds or more since cleaning and I just don’t trust it that long.
Besides I just shoot 1 rifle anymore and have plenty of time to wipe it out while the 2nd relay is shooting.
I’ve never seen a downside since I started cleaning it ever target. I mean I can take a couple minutes to clean it and then I know for sure that I can trust shots 3-25.

I shoot 68s with LT32 at 3400 fps

 

[jackieschmidt]

The “cleaning after every group” finds it’s roots in Short Range Group Shooting.

When I stated shooting back in the 1990’s, everybody cleaned after each group, so I did as well.

I still clean my 6PPC after every group, or target. It is certainly not because a 6PPC fouls a barrel any more than anything else, it is more or less “just what we do”.

In Varmint for Score, where I shoot my 30BR, I sometimes do not clean untill the entire Grand Agg is through. As long as the Rifle is shooting at a competitive level, I leave it alone.

One thing I never do is leave the range with a dirty barrel. The first thing I do when I finish with the last shot of the day is give it a good cleaning, preferably while the barrel is still warm.

Many say that we Short Range Shooters clean too much. I say that the reason we never worry about things like carbon rings and over fouled barrels is because we get it out of there before it takes a foot hold.

My cleaning regiment is about 15 strokes with a bronze brush saturated with Butches Bore Shine. I then use as many wet patches as it takes to see that nothing is left, then I dry it with however many patches it takes untill they come out “white”.

Just a note. Get in the habit of stopping that cleaning rod the instant it clears the muzzle, whether brushing or using a jag and patch. I have first hand experience that using those long sweeping strokes can damage the bottom of the barrel.

 

[TIMO]

All,
Great info, I appreciate everyones responses so far. I am looking forward to next season and shooting the 6PPC and I will be definitely looking at implementing the data points from everyone and see what best suits my particular rifle.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[tmwinds]

Let your rifle and targets tell you when to clean. There is no magic number.

 

[Straightshooter1]

The “cleaning after every group” finds it’s roots in Short Range Group Shooting.

When I stated shooting back in the 1990’s, everybody cleaned after each group, so I did as well.

I still clean my 6PPC after every group, or target. It is certainly not because a 6PPC fouls a barrel any more than anything else, it is more or less “just what we do”.

In Varmint for Score, where I shoot my 30BR, I sometimes do not clean untill the entire Grand Agg is through. As long as the Rifle is shooting at a competitive level, I leave it alone.

One thing I never do is leave the range with a dirty barrel. The first thing I do when I finish with the last shot of the day is give it a good cleaning, preferably while the barrel is still warm.

Many say that we Short Range Shooters clean too much. I say that the reason we never worry about things like carbon rings and over fouled barrels is because we get it out of there before it takes a foot hold.

My cleaning regiment is about 15 strokes with a bronze brush saturated with Butches Bore Shine. I then use as many wet patches as it takes to see that nothing is left, then I dry it with however many patches it takes untill they come out “white”.

Just a not. Get in the habit of stopping that cleaning rod the instant it clears the muzzle, whether brushing or using a jag and patch. I have first hand experience that using those long sweeping strokes can damage the bottom of the barrel.

Likewise, I don't like to leave the range with a dirty barrel. . . not too dirty anyway. When I finish shooting, I like to remove the spent powder grit by running a couple wet patch through followed by a couple tight dry patches. Then I like to run a wet patch of Wipe Out through the bore, which will sit and soak until I get home and get around to cleaning the bore (like some time within 24 hrs). Upon further cleaning, I'll run another wet patch of Wipe Out to clean out what Wipe Out has done having sat for awhile, followed by a dry patch. ~5 strokes back and forth strokes with a bronze brush followed by a wet patch of Hoppe's to remove grit and then a couple dry patches and I'm done.

If I haven't taken care of the carbon ring after a few outings, I'll soak that area with CLR on a mop for 15 - 20 minutes; dry patch the area and short stroke that area 5-6 strokes with a slightly oversized bronze brush + IOSSO. Wet patch with Wipe Out to remove the IOSSO followed by dry patch. Carbon ring gone.

 

[Larry Koch]

I have a theory, before everyone had a bore scope, they just cleaned after every target, cause thats what everyonelse did. Now you can tell which cleaners work and which don't. And over time you really don't need to clean as much unless you want too. Or you are still using cleaning methods that don't work to well.
Eric Cortina said it best, clean is clean.. Alot of bore cleaners are just subpar. I never get a carbon ring after I stopped using the subpar bore cleaners.

 

[D Coots]

Let your rifle and targets tell you when to clean. There is no magic number.

Sure but, arighty then, at the Nationals in AZ I went to a different powder I had never shot...it.shot good...problem is, by the time the rifle told me to clean it, the agg was toast....it only takes one group in real competition.....my bad.

 

[tmwinds]

Sure but, arighty then, at the Nationals in AZ I went to a different powder I had never shot...it.shot good...problem is, by the time the rifle told me to clean it, the agg was toast....it only takes one group in real competition.....my bad.

Yeah, every time I think I have it figured out I get re-educated .

 

[jackieschmidt]

I haven’t put anything in a bore except Butches Boreshine ever since it hit the market.

But then, I do not shoot Disciplines that by their very nature do not allow a shooter to clean before all of that crap builds up.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I clean a ppc after every group or test session. They seem to shoot best clean. Out of all the stuff I have played with over the years the ppc is one of the easiest to clean. The N133 just doesnt lay down the carbon as bad as many other powders. Plus cleaning them often and still warm helps. You should never need an abrasive in a ppc. Just not necessary. In my opinion thats where the reputation for short barrel life came from. Ppcs are not hard on barrels. Abrasives are.

 

[WayneShaw]

Sure but, arighty then, at the Nationals in AZ I went to a different powder I had never shot...it.shot good...problem is, by the time the rifle told me to clean it, the agg was toast....it only takes one group in real competition.....my bad.

When your gun tells you to clean, you can see it on the target, which aint good!

 

[JMayo]

I tracked shots and came up with it needs cleaning about every 30.
Not scrubbed to new just a patch or four. A clean dry bore mop after.

 

[Will Henry]

The “cleaning after every group” finds it’s roots in Short Range Group Shooting.

When I stated shooting back in the 1990’s, everybody cleaned after each group, so I did as well.

I still clean my 6PPC after every group, or target. It is certainly not because a 6PPC fouls a barrel any more than anything else, it is more or less “just what we do”.

In Varmint for Score, where I shoot my 30BR, I sometimes do not clean untill the entire Grand Agg is through. As long as the Rifle is shooting at a competitive level, I leave it alone.

One thing I never do is leave the range with a dirty barrel. The first thing I do when I finish with the last shot of the day is give it a good cleaning, preferably while the barrel is still warm.

Many say that we Short Range Shooters clean too much. I say that the reason we never worry about things like carbon rings and over fouled barrels is because we get it out of there before it takes a foot hold.

My cleaning regiment is about 15 strokes with a bronze brush saturated with Butches Bore Shine. I then use as many wet patches as it takes to see that nothing is left, then I dry it with however many patches it takes untill they come out “white”.

Just a not. Get in the habit of stopping that cleaning rod the instant it clears the muzzle, whether brushing or using a jag and patch. I have first hand experience that using those long sweeping strokes can damage the bottom of the barrel.

I learned, on my own, that a clean barrel shoots better than a fouled one. I had a Ruger which would shoot good for ten shots, then start to scatter a bit. I would scrub it out with Hoppes and a brush, wipe it clean and Voila'! accuracy was restored. About this time, my dad started shooting BR and I followed suit. Like Jackie says, we cleaned after each group, 'cause that's the way it was. I think Jackie pointed out a couple of real important points. Clean when you are done shooting. Also, protect your bore.
I think the actual necessity for cleaning is barrel- dependent. My best PPC never fouled at all and I cleaned it after every other group. My 300 meter rifle, a 308, has also never fouled and it doen't generally get cleaned as often (every fifty shots or so), unless I use it at a BR match, then it gets the same treatment as any BR rifle. Habit and opportunity. WH

 

[jackieschmidt]

I can relay a really good story about cleaning and what is “clean enough”.

Quite a few years ago, ant the last Nationals they held at Midland, we were all “sitting around the campfire” talking about cleaning. It seems that just like now, opinions varied.

We were going to shoot the Sporter 100 the next morning, so Jerry Hensley produced a Bore Scope and said we would find out whose rifle was indeed clean.

Quite a few shooters produced rifles, including me. When Jerry looked at mine, he declared it dead on arrival. He said there were all sorts of carbon and copper streaks in there, and I should get out the abrasive cleaner and get it out. It might take all night.

I told him no, it was ready to go to the line in the morning. I had been following Krieger‘s ideas on cleaning for some time. They recmmended on their cut rifled barrels, to avoid getting every last little smidgen out of those (almost microscopic) lines in the grooves that were a result of their cut rifling process.

Just about everybody agreed that I was full of crap.

The next morning, I shot a .162 agg and won the yardage.

I have not changed a thing since.

 

[ArtinNC]

""""One thing I never do is leave the range with a dirty barrel. The first thing I do when I finish with the last shot of the day is give it a good cleaning, preferably while the barrel is still warm.""""" AND """Just a not. Get in the habit of stopping that cleaning rod the instant it clears the muzzle, whether brushing or using a jag and patch. I have first hand experience that using those long sweeping strokes can damage the bottom of the barrel."""

jackieschmidt this is the best advice ever I agree 100 %​

 

[BoydAllen]

I can relay a really good story about cleaning and what is “clean enough”.

Quite a few years ago, ant the last Nationals they held at Midland, we were all “sitting around the campfire” talking about cleaning. It seems that just like now, opinions varied.

We were going to shoot the Sporter 100 the next morning, so Jerry Hensley produced a Bore Scope and said we would find out whose rifle was indeed clean.

Quite a few shooters produced rifles, including me. When Jerry looked at mine, he declared it dead on arrival. He said there were all sorts of carbon and copper streaks in there, and I should get out the abrasive cleaner and get it out. It might take all night.

I told him no, it was ready to go to the line in the morning. I had been following Krieger‘s ideas on cleaning for some time. They recmmended on their cut rifled barrels, to avoid getting every last little smidgen out of those (almost microscopic) lines in the grooves that were a result of their cut rifling process.

Just about everybody agreed that I was full of crap.

The next morning, I shot a .162 agg and won the yardage.

I have not changed a thing since.

I always tell new bore scope owners to use it to find out just exactly how clean a barrel needs to be for best performance, and that leaving a little in a barrel is usually better than trying to make it look like it has never been fired. IMO one of the greatest things that has happened for the shooting sports recently, is the appearance of cheap bore scopes that work very well, but they can cause some users to get carried away with their cleaning. I tell them to let their barrel tell them what it prefers.

 

[Scott haywood]

I don't know if anyone has ever lost a yardage or match because of their barrel being too clean, but I know for a fact that you can easily loose everything with one that got too fouled...