Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[Geronimo Jim]

I don't ever remember hearing that Henry Ford got help from
the government. I thank that stuff is just talking points
for a position that just goes against common sense.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I don't ever remember hearing that Henry Ford got help from
the government. I thank that stuff is just talking points
for a position that just goes against common sense.

*By the US Government.

He was supplied assistance during WW2 from the German Government. Ford had a direct link to Auschwitz, and used captives as laborers to build vehicles for the Nazi regime in WW2. In fact he was awarded 'The Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle' from the Nazi/German party and built vehicles for the Nazis during WW2. More specifically trucks. I would say that is definitely government help... using slave labor and all. He used labor directly from Auschwitz to build his empire....

Here is a photo of him being awarded by the Nazi's.

 

[GotRDid]

Sad, but mostly true….

Did Henry Ford help Germany during world war 2?

Answer: Henry Ford supplied trucks and engines to the German army during World War II. Even before the war, the Nazis received 65,000 trucks from Ford branches in Germany, Belgium and France. In addition, Ford's branch in Switzerland repaired thousands of German trucks. In 1940, Ford refused to...

allofficialworldhistoryisalie.quora.com

 

[rr2030]

I think everything is subsided. That’s why we can’t get rid of the fat cats up on the hill.

Reagan: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. EV's began at phase three.

 

[Brians356]

"According to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), EVs are involved in about 25 fires per 100,000 sold, while gasoline-powered vehicles are involved in about 1,530 fires per 100,000 sold. This means that gasoline vehicles are about 60 times more likely to catch fire than EVs."

There are tens of millions of old cars on the road in the "car crazy" US, none of them EVs. Most non-collision vehicle fires involve older vehicle with deteriorating fuel system components, improperly maintained. As EVs age their lithium batteries and high-current circuits will degrade. The batteries especially are volatile and become unstable over time. Ask anyone who (like me) has been flying battery-powered R-C model airplanes since the 1990s. If there were an equal number of old ICE and old EVs on the road today, you'd have a valid point.
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[Jim Ziegler]

There are tens of millions of old cars on the road in the "car crazy" US, none of them EVs. Most non-collision vehicle fires involve older vehicle with deteriorating fuel system components, improperly maintained. As EVs age their lithium batteries and high-current circuits will degrade. The batteries especially are volatile and become unstable over time. Ask anyone who (like me) has been flying battery-powered R-C model airplanes since the 1990s. If there were an equal number of old ICE and old EVs on the road today, you'd have a valid point.
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That's why I fly the big gassers!

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

There are tens of millions of old cars on the road in the "car crazy" US, none of them EVs. Most non-collision vehicle fires involve older vehicle with deteriorating fuel system components, improperly maintained. As EVs age their lithium batteries and high-current circuits will degrade. The batteries especially are volatile and become unstable over time. Ask anyone who (like me) has been flying battery-powered R-C model airplanes since the 1990s. If there were an equal number of old ICE and old EVs on the road today, you'd have a valid point.
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Their are tens of millions of old EVs on the road as well. The argument might have been ok 15 years ago. But not today. Tesla sold nearly 2 million vehicles in 2023. They started selling cars in 2008. Chevy has sold EVs since the 1990s. Their are more than 40 million EVs on the road. But here is why your argument is void. Read it again.

"EVs are involved in about 25 fires per 100,000 sold, while gasoline-powered vehicles are involved in about 1,530 fires per 100,000 sold." <--- This is per capita not per total. For every 100,000 vehicles sold they are seeing 61 times more fires in gas vehicles than electric.

 

[Brians356]

Their are tens of millions of old EVs on the road as well.

Mark Twain said "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

The fires per capita you cling to desperately ignores the age of the vehicles. The average age of the passenger car fleet is 14 years, but of the EV fleet only 4 years.
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[DocUSMCRetired]

Mark Twain said "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

The fires per capita you cling to desperately ignores the age of the vehicles. The average age of the passenger car fleet is 14 years, but of the EV fleet only 4 years.
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^ This is a lie. But it isn't worth the time explaining again. If you can't comprehend how per 100,000 vehicles sold compares apples to apples then I can't help you with the rest. The average age of a car on the road is not 14 years old.

Like it or not, peoples strange affection for attacking a new technology they don't understand, with talking points they didn't research or learn themselves is its own fascinating yet societal debilitating problem. However it is an interesting phenomenon to watch.

Tesla sold nearly 2 million vehicles in one. That is one company out of a dozen that make EVs. Their are tens of millions of old EVs on the road.

If you are going to hate on electric vehicles though make sure you don't leave out Golf Carts, Trains, and Cargo ships plus more.

 

[Downhill]

*By the US Government.

He was supplied assistance during WW2 from the German Government. Ford had a direct link to Auschwitz, and used captives as laborers to build vehicles for the Nazi regime in WW2. In fact he was awarded 'The Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle' from the Nazi/German party and built vehicles for the Nazis during WW2. More specifically trucks. I would say that is definitely government help... using slave labor and all. He used labor directly from Auschwitz to build his empire....

Here is a photo of him being awarded by the Nazi's.
View attachment 1597418

If I recall right, Ford successfully sued the US Government for bombing their manufacturing plants in Germany.

 

[Brians356]

I get the stats on registered passenger vehicles, and average fleet age, from government publications. They're in all the papers, even the New York Times.

You insist, possibly tongue in cheek, that trains and ships are EVs, i.e. don't rely on internal combustion engines. You also call golf carts passenger vehicles. I welcome such utterances since they illuminate the speciousness of your claims.
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[jds holler]

My "automobile strategy" simply doesn't allow for the cost of a new EV or any other form of new vehicle. When I shop for a car or truck, it better have at least 150000 miles on it, and be eight or ten years old. I've never spent as much as $8000 on a vehicle, and I don't expect that I'd ever find a EV in that price range that would be worth owning. In our area, there are plenty of used ICE types within that price range.

We don't consider ourselves "poor folk", but I'm pretty good at squeezing a dollar. We've got enough money to get us to the grave, as long as we don't do something stupid like dropping a hundred grand on a car. jd

 

[Intheshop]

Responded back 100 pages or so on a new '22 Honda Accord hybrid.
Wifeypoo traded it in on a '24.
'22; I opened the hood 3 times in 2 years and 20k miles. 1st,to check oil,2nd time to change oil,3rd time to check other fluids. Car was their base(cheapy) model that would spin the wheels up on dry pavement... think rolling burn out. Would constantly amaze me with fuel mileage. 60's mpg were "easy"... getting consistently in the low 70's took a light foot.

'24 (new generation) is not the base model... wifey fell in love with the Aston Martin looking "sport" model. Noticeably smaller trunk/boot.... like,way smaller. Sayin,you can put two dead deer in a '22,the '24.... one deer is gonna require some effort. The bumper "overhang" is also notably less. Haven't checked weight but,the fuel trim/curve has been changed. Both @70 mph... same roads. The '22 was in the 60's easily. The Sport '24 is upper 40's (easy) and dipping into low 50 mpg.

The '24 is faster.... best place to illustrate would be highway blasting. Say you're running speed limit to 5 over @75 mph. With the fuel trim button on "kill mode" ( kill vs saving whales) the time it takes to go from 75-90 to clear a big truck during a pass isn't measured in distance.... or time. Nope,in the time it takes to snap your fingers.... it's done,and distance is a blur.

I built a hydraulic 3 axis wheel straightening machine 20 or so years ago for M/C wheels. Over the years,straightened 3 of wifey's Subaru wheels. Guess she didn't notice the 40 series Michelin pilot sport race tires on the new Accord?

 

[Brians356]

From S&P Global Motility (January 2024):

The average age of battery electric vehicles (BEVs) in the US is 3.6 years. ... The average age of passenger cars continues to trend higher at 14 years.

Since BEVs are included in the overall passenger car fleet, if one subtracts the BEVs then the average age of the remaining ICE portion is even higher than 14 years.
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[Tangent]

The biggest issue I see in a "cost of living crisis" is ordinary people simply can't afford a new car let alone an EV. Most I know buy used and run them for years. Taking a risk on new technology isn't an option.

 

[NorCalMikie]

 

[Brians356]

Telegraph (UK) headline: “Electric car drivers ‘being plunged into negative equity’ as prices collapse.”

Vertu Motors said on Wednesday that car retailers were coming under pressure as EVs coming off financing agreements were found to be worth less than the loan they are attached to.
***
It follows warnings last month that so-called fleet operators, such as car leasing firms and rental companies, were having to swallow large losses when reselling EVs because of “accelerated, exceptional depreciation”.

In the past two years, the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association (BVRLA) said the average amount of “residual value” left over at the end of a car’s lease period had plunged from 60% to 35%.

The above is specific to the UK, but here's a chart from popular AutoTrader re: the US:


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[rkittine]

I have a Prius and a RAV-4 Prime. Both can be charged and run on electric only for local runs and both are hybrid and can go very long distances in gas. Can’t tow much with the Prius. I get over 50mpg overal, but you can with the RAV-4 that has averages just over 42 MPG since new

 

[NorCalMikie]

Seems that not too long ago that there was something said about the Britts having problems with NOT keeping up with the needed charging stations? Almost anything would be better than what we have here in the U.S.. No problems if you live in or close to a big city. Out in the country, you've got issues, and maybe NOT make it home??
Home charge and hope you don't burn your house down, and when your Ins. co. suggests that you NOT charge in your attached garage??? What's wrong with this picture???

 

[Olde Man]

Talking about subsidies what is Trump going to give Musk for his support. I thought that the GOP was no EV and drill baby drill.