6ARC, Savage bolt, Shilen barrel.

[KMW 1954]

Posted a bit about this previously. This is a quick range report.

Savage 110 Switchback action, Shilen Match Select 4 groove 28" barrel, no brake. Generic test load, Lapua Scenar 105gr over 25.5gr of BL-C2 with CCI400 primers in Starline brass. Glass is Athlon Argos SFP 10-40X65 1/8MOA on a 20MOA rail. Mounted in a Boyd's At-One Thumbhole.

Rifle bore sighted thru the bore @ 50yds and then fired at 100yds.

First shot, 12oclock and 3" high. Second shot just below and right of #1. Third shot level and touching left of #2.

Adjusted scope down and ran out of adjustment. Bottomed out! fired 3 more and was still 2" high. Halted after these. Though I am impressed with the two groups of a thrown together load.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Zero stop ???

 

[KMW 1954]

Zero stop ???

Nope zero stop was loosened

Put that scope on another rifle with Zero MOA bases and with doing a bore sight I had to adjust the scope up 4 full turns to get even close to a normal bore sight and on target..

 

[6MMsteve]

Burris zee's or use tape measure and shim the front there is a search forum that talks about thousands to moa... tape measure shims will get you where you want to be..a drift set will punch the holes precise or you can make a drift out of couple pcs of steel, not a gunsmith just shadetree guy but it works

 

[Riesel]

Your 20 MOA rail is the culprit. use a 0 MOA rail or sight in and shoot at 300 yards.

 

[std7mag]

Yup, it's the rail.
Been there, done that.

 

[Uncle Bruce]

Yup, it's the rail.
Been there, done that.

If possible can you position the front and rear scope rings farther apart from each other?it happened to me and that was the fix. Maybe it was Burris but someone had a chart online that showed that the closer they were together the more the angel was exaggerated.

 

[Rocketvapor]

See if you can find a link to that chart.
Seems to me that angles be angles.
Think of what would happen if you put two forward rings and two rear rings.
What would happen?

 

[std7mag]

If possible can you position the front and rear scope rings farther apart from each other?it happened to me and that was the fix. Maybe it was Burris but someone had a chart online that showed that the closer they were together the more the angel was exaggerated.

One thing to check is to take the screws out of the rail, and just sit it on top of the action.
I tried several rails on my wife's 110FP.
Found out that the older Savage actions don't align up front to rear.
The rear of the action sits lower than the front.
A 6" straight edge will show this.
If I set the rail on the front, with a little pressure on the front, there was a gap between the rail and back of the receiver.
I had to use a zero MOA rail and shim the back.
Otherwise you are bending the rail.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Your 20 MOA rail is the culprit. use a 0 MOA rail or sight in and shoot at 300 yards.

This is exactly right, Higher powered scopes usually have a limited elevation travel, Like 45 moa or something like that. Which when the reticle is centered you only get half of that travel, So say 22.5 up and 22.5 down (just an illustration), So yes, If you put a standard moa rail on your problem will be solved.

I don't know the specs of your scope, But with a 40x at the top end, Your scope has limited elevation travel.

 

[ShaunBrady]

The Athlon data sheet for that scope lists 45 moa of vertical adjustment. A 20 moa rail would leave 5 moa of adjustment available. It wouldn't be that unusual for that to not work out for a 100 yard zero.

In general, scopes in that price range can lose tracking near their limits.

Prior to the early 2000's, Savage actions were flat at the top rear of the action like a M700. It's obvious, you can see it. Bases are available for those actions. Bedding scope rails is never a bad idea though.

If there isn't any cant built into the rings themselves, spacing them differently won't change anything.

 

[Riesel]

One thing to check is to take the screws out of the rail, and just sit it on top of the action.
I tried several rails on my wife's 110FP.
Found out that the older Savage actions don't align up front to rear.
The rear of the action sits lower than the front.
A 6" straight edge will show this.
If I set the rail on the front, with a little pressure on the front, there was a gap between the rail and back of the receiver.
I had to use a zero MOA rail and shim the back.
Otherwise you are bending the rail.

Older model Savage rifles had a flat back on the action, flat not rounded. Need to use the correct rail.

 

[KMW 1954]

Unfortunately I did not get to shoot it today as the range I work was packed the whole day. Now. the person I talked with at Athlon rather balked at me when I mentioned the 20MOA rail and the 100yd sight-in. Though he did without question offered me to send it in and they would check it and if need be would replace it.

So Again I put on an Athlon Argos 8-34X56 using Weaver Tactical rings and leaving this 20MOA rail. I also put that Athlon Argos 10-40X56 using Warne Maxima rings on another Savage with Weaver style bases. Both have been bore sighted at 50yds. BTW my bore sighting is removing the bolt and looking down the barrel at a fixed target.

I do not work tomorrow so I will be shooting both tomorrow and will report back my findings. Wish me luck.

 

[Sniperhandle]

The Athlon data sheet for that scope lists 45 moa of vertical adjustment. A 20 moa rail would leave 5 moa of adjustment available. It wouldn't be that unusual for that to not work out for a 100 yard zero.

In general, scopes in that price range can lose tracking near their limits.

Prior to the early 2000's, Savage actions were flat at the top rear of the action like a M700. It's obvious, you can see it. Bases are available for those actions. Bedding scope rails is never a bad idea though.

If there isn't any cant built into the rings themselves, spacing them differently won't change anything.

Yes you are right. A lot of people don't understand when they get out to the range to shoot 1000 yards that the advertised elevation adjustment is really half, He thinks he needs to come up 30 moa and his scope has 45 moa of adjustment so he's good, Doesn't realize he will run out of elevation. Seen it happen many times to guys just starting out.

 

[KMW 1954]

Yes you are right. A lot of people don't understand when they get out to the range to shoot 1000 yards that the advertised elevation adjustment is really half, He thinks he needs to come up 30 moa and his scope has 45 moa of adjustment so he's good, Doesn't realize he will run out of elevation. Seen it happen many times to guys just starting out.

Someone please tell me what shooting to 1k yards has to do with a 100yard Zero? Because I do not see any relation.

 

[std7mag]

Older model Savage rifles had a flat back on the action, flat not rounded. Need to use the correct rail.

I can eyeball between flat and round.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with that.

Lay a straight edge on the top of the receiver.
The rear of the action is lower than the front of action.

Like a Ruger 77 action. They use a higher rear scope ring and a lower front scope ring.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Someone please tell me what shooting to 1k yards has to do with a 100yard Zero? Because I do not see any relation.

The relation is that elevation will runout in a scope like yours with a 20 moa base because, All of your adjustment is gone trying to get POI down low enough. Used it as an illustration. I guess you don't understand how it works. Sorry I offered my help.

 

[KMW 1954]

The relation is that elevation will runout in a scope like yours with a 20 moa base because, All of your adjustment is gone trying to get POI down low enough. Used it as an illustration. I guess you don't understand how it works. Sorry I offered my help.

Well that was clearly explained in post #5 and then again seconded by you in post #10 which I fully understood and accepted at that point. Even at the time of the first shoot my friend and I commented that at that setting it would have most likely been right on at 200 yds. Also the range I shoot at is nowhere near those kind of distances so to me 1k yds is meaningless and never enters my thought process..

 

[KMW 1954]

Shooting results from today.

Made a few swaps and fired one again. The Athlon 10-40 with Warne Maxima rings was taken off the Savage with the 20MOA rail and placed on a Savage with everyday Weaver bases and my Athlon 8-34 using Weaver Tactical rings was put on the Savage with the rail.

The 10-40 Athlon Argos on the standard bases I had to move up over 5 full turns to get on target.. The 8-34 Athlon Argos I didn't have to move much because it was already once on this 20MOA rail before I changed the barrel. At that time I was able to adjust an move zero on the scope.

After just a couple of quick sight-in shots I was easily able to zero both rifles with the scope changes made to them. The old 223 still shoots 1/2 - 3/4MOA at 100yds. The new Shilen 6ARC is shooting one raged hole at 100yds.

So my intention is to use the Athlon 10-40X56 1/8MOA on this Arc for a local league we shoot. So may be in need of a different rail. Don't see how the rings could be effecting this.

 

[KMW 1954]

Final update! 11/05/24

So I went and ordered another set of Weaver Tactical rings and replaced those Warne Maxima rings. Set up the Argos 10-40X56 into those new rings and did a quick thru bore bore sight at about 50yds. Then shot for sight-in at 100yds. 1st shot was 5" high and 2" left.. After a couple more adjustments it's now spot on.