Why does USA not have a target 22LR ammo that will compete ?

[dgeesaman]

I’m sure the manufacturers consider that there is demand, but they consider much more than that. It takes three years to acquire a rimfire ammo machine, and probably much more to build up a supply chain for brass, bullets, priming compound, and powder. These new rimfire competitions largely didn’t exist five years ago and there is a significant chance they won’t be here in another five years. Market forces brought these shooters to rimfire and market force can sweep them away.

Not to offend anyone, but what is the age of these potential buyers? How many years can they be expected to keep buying the good stuff - will it be long enough for a manufacturer to break even? Or make money? Even with an overwhelmingly good expectation of profit, with interest rates where they are I’d put any free cash into savings rather than make capital investments right now.

My employer makes capital equipment and our customers make good money with that equipment. In 2024 they aren’t buying. Too many reasons not to launch capital intensive expansions in the USA this year.

 

[F250]

Just my 2 cents. I see less people at High Power Matches theses days, do to costs ?
I find myself back shooting .22 Rim just to keep shooting and not dropping $$$$.
I have a few .22's my 1957 52C never stops to impress me. Think of the rounds down that barrel?
There is even a .22 F/Class now ? .22 just may get a rebirth?
Ireland has a lot of .22 Rim Shooting theses days.

Just maybe if the demand is there ? Federal may make .22 Ammo as they once did?

That’s happening at my local club. A few HP guys recently tried both rimfire bench and F. I’ve not spoken with them to ask the why. It’s more than likely less cost.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Federal made quality match in years past, no longer probably because it was not as profitable. Lapua recently announced an expansion.

YES,.. Federal "Could make" VERY Accurate .22 LR, ammo,. BUT, the "powers that, Be" ( aka, Bean Counters ) won't Spend, the Extra $$$'s for the "Better Quality",.. Lead and, Gun Powder that's,.. Necessary.
Some LOTS of, Fed Auto Match, Shoot "Well" But, it's,. DIRTY powder and, Soft Lead,. HOLD, It,. Back !
So I'll Pay, the little Bit Extra for, the Foreign,.. SK, Wolf and Lapua, "Stuff" that,.. "Shoots" !
As, I Hate having to Clean, My Custom 10-22 Ruger Rifle,.. TWICE as, Often !

 

[CharlieNC]

An overarching problem in the US is the race to the bottom in terms of cost at the expense of quality. All this being pushed by the MBAs in the pursuit of profit, who do not appreciate many consumers want to pay more for a higher quality vs buying junk. A decent profit margin does not correspond to low quality junk, so the downward spiral continues. The wise understand the business and seek the quality vs price balance, but not like the MBAs as ran Remington.

 

[centershot]

I still have a partial box of Federal UM1, ultra match.They made, I believe, two other lower grades that were rounds that did not meet the standard for UM1. I know that there are a lot of shooters who compete in .22 matches, but I also believe that there is not a market for $25 a box, or more ammo. 10X when I was shooting gallery was $10 a box! Way to expensive.

 

[Jayplace]

I’m sure the manufacturers consider that there is demand, but they consider much more than that. It takes three years to acquire a rimfire ammo machine, and probably much more to build up a supply chain for brass, bullets, priming compound, and powder. These new rimfire competitions largely didn’t exist five years ago and there is a significant chance they won’t be here in another five years. Market forces brought these shooters to rimfire and market force can sweep them away.

Not to offend anyone, but what is the age of these potential buyers? How many years can they be expected to keep buying the good stuff - will it be long enough for a manufacturer to break even? Or make money? Even with an overwhelmingly good expectation of profit, with interest rates where they are I’d put any free cash into savings rather than make capital investments right now.

My employer makes capital equipment and our customers make good money with that equipment. In 2024 they aren’t buying. Too many reasons not to launch capital intensive expansions in the USA this year.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but yes, the Rimfire matches have been taking place for a long time. My .22RF Benchrest rifle was built over 25 years ago. I don't see it going away. People are going to compete with everything.

I was on my High School Rifle team 60 years ago. The rifle then could have been as expensive, comparatively speaking, as rifles today. Some cost much more than I could afford at the time.

The cost of a Benchrest .22 LR is very little different than for a centerfire. My stock is identical to my 30BR. the custom action, match barrel and quality scope are pretty much identical in cost.

 

[SteveOak]

Doubtful, but to produce an Olympic quality 22LR with long term repeatability just does not make economic sense in the US of A. IMO...and just MO the market is too small for the cost of RD and testing.

Still not following. Cost of production, labor, taxes, etc. are higher in Europe and Scandanavia than in the US.

 

[Multiracer]

Given how difficult it's been to find SK & Lapua 22RF ammo here in the States for the past 4yrs, I find it hard to understand why several of the previous replies state that the demand is not there or that the market is too small?? I might've had some partial agreement with that opinion back in 2016, because at that time, I could still call any of several wholesalers and order a half-dozen lot samples of SK Rifle Match or Lapua Center-X....not any more. As soon as shooters find out that there's any of these two ammo lines available, it's gone...

...and this my friend is called supply and demand. They are making record profits on the products they keep in short supply.

 

[DocBII]

TS and RS,

I've got a little bit of the dimpled Federal ammo left, it is great. Always wondered way the follow-on stuff didn't shoot as well. Only stuff which came close was very old Remington, which was dubious in matches because corrosion had taken its toll on about half of the cases/bullets.

Got to have pride in the USA as well as make a profit,
DocBII

 

[dgeesaman]

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but yes, the Rimfire matches have been taking place for a long time. My .22RF Benchrest rifle was built over 25 years ago. I don't see it going away. People are going to compete with everything.

I was making a reference to rimfire PRS.

Rimfire Benchrest and smallbore f-class has grown also but the PRS crowd appeared recentl and is consuming all varieties of 22LR. With there being a fixed supply of match 22LR ammo it’s become much more difficult to get good stuff since about 2020.

 

[grauhanen]

dgeesaman is right about an explosion in demand for .22LR match ammo since PRS began to explode in popularity about half-a-dozen years ago.

A problem with .22LR match ammo production is that it has relatively small profit margins. In short, despite its relatively high cost, there's not a lot of money to be made in match ammo. It's as true today as it was two decades ago, five decades ago, and longer.

Contemporaneously, it's not a matter of switching current machinery in non-Lapua, Eley, or RWS plants to make better ammo. It requires upgrades at all levels. And once the machinery to produce match ammo is in place, it's not simply a matter of turning them on and selling the output to satisfy growing demand. There's a great deal of learning, trial and error, and experience required to produce consistent top level ammo.

 

[VLNBYR]

Venture capitalists are constantly looking for opportunities. If it could be done it would. The current political, environmental, and economic situation here in the US is saying it can't be done.

 

[Turkeytider]

The cheap ammo market is too large within the USA. If CCI has a million dollars to expand production they’re going to make more cheap ammo because there is no risk and ample demand.

Match rimfire ammo is risky (look at Eley current struggles), expensive to get into, and small rewards. Until the cheap ammo market is fully saturated there will be no incentive to expand into match ammo.

This. Want to see REAL ammo variability? Shoot a 17HMR.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Well for all .22 Rim Fire fans ? Rim Fife Central Site, have some Help.
We post like here good information, Just two weeks ago Norma Tac 22 at $2.99 a box limit a case.

 

[USMCDOC]

Simple , MONEY.... Most people including myself until recently don't understand why anybody would be dumb enough to pay $15-$35 a box for .22lr ammo when you can get a box of blazer that goes bang everytime for $2.99.... They make what sells the most... Most people don't spend the money on a rifle that can see the difference.... They buy a 10/22 or whatever is cheapest I mean it's a .22 and if it will hit a coke can or a squirrel it's accurate enough especially with that $39.99 scope they put on it.....

Like I said until recently I was exactly that guy and then I started shooting rimfire 200-300 yards etc.... Actually taking the time to crono ammo like centerfire ammo etc.... when you see an SD of 110 out of CCI SV not once but twice on both a lab radar and a Garmin and an SD of 8 out of other ammo you start to pay attention to what's going on.... Now I have about a grand in a river precision rimfire and my own spinner and swinging targets etc.... I can shoot at a 3-4 inch swingers all day at 300 yards and of course I won't hit it everytime but it's a ton of fun.... I normally shoot at a 2 1/4 inch spinner at 200 yards and once again I won't hit it everytime but I use eley force and it's $5.25 a box or Norma tac $4.99 occasionally... For fifty yards I had a spinner made that's a half inch on top and 3/4 on bottom.... I also use SK match , standered plus all sort of ELEY....

You can have sooooo much fun with a .22 with a decent scope and you will learn so much about wind it's painful..... If you shoot mainly at one place you will learn what the wind does there... You can spend an unlimited amount of money on equipment if you want just like anything else... Just like wind flags , you can spend $100 a flag or like me $4 a roll of survey tape from Amazon.... Either will work....I entered a rimfire match for pistol and won using a box stock Glock 44 up against all kinds of guns running red dots.... Instead I choose to spend my money on trigger time.... If you can hit the target and others can't it's alot easier to win...

In the end there's absolutely no comparison in SK match etc and cheap bulk .22 but it's hard to explain that to people.... Even when they can see the results on paper.... In the end people back at $130 a brick compared to that bucket O bullets of Remington gold dots... Some people won't believe what is proven to them right before their eyes... The definition of doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results....

You don’t compete do you

 

[dgeesaman]

This. Want to see REAL ammo variability? Shoot a 17HMR.

I don’t shoot much 17hmr anymore. The accuracy just isn’t there enough to be enjoyable.

David

 

[TRSR8]

...and this my friend is called supply and demand. They are making record profits on the products they keep in short supply.

Study up there sport, there is no short supply. The highest quality match ammo supply is as big as it always been.
ELEY has suffered issues resulting in far less demand, pushing everybody to Lapua. Add to that major increases in interest from, F class, NRL, PRS guys that finally figured out there’s zero alternative to true match ammo and……here we are.
That said, even Lapua can be found with some effort

 

[DGP4]

When any product has marginal demand and there are already 2-3 dominant global players in the market, why would anyone try and compete?

 

[drover]

When any product has marginal demand and there are already 2-3 dominant global players in the market, why would anyone try and compete?

Good summation

drover

 

[Turkeytider]

I don’t shoot much 17hmr anymore. The accuracy just isn’t there enough to be enjoyable.

David

Mine shoots good for a 17HMR out to about 200 yards. It`ll hit a 4" gong with some regularity once I get the scope dialed in for that particular day. Things get challenging to say the least with the 2" and 3" targets at 200. At least that`s been my experience.