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Ingenuity Precision production unit overview

What will this do better that my v4 auto trickler ? Is it faster? Is it consistently more accurate, less prone to throwing over the target weight.?
 
Im hoping for the consistently more accurate which will make a reloading session faster
We dont have much time between relays every little bit of time picked up helps
 
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What will I gain by upgrading to a Sartorius from my FX 120? The problem have with the FX 120 is that it always drifts and will not hold zero. I always wonder if its operator error or the scale.
 
Jtate said:
What will I gain by upgrading to a Sartorius from my FX 120? The problem have with the FX 120 is that it always drifts and will not hold zero. I always wonder if its operator error or the scale.
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That's what you'll gain. The sartorious doesn't seem to drift nearly as badly. It will drift also, but I've only ever seen it drift in the 3rd decimal place. So if left zeroed, I can come back a day later and it might readout .003 or something. That's the worst I've seen so far, and it seems to resolve itself if left alone. Conversely the fx120 sitting an inch away from it will have drifted over a tenth of a grain. I've had that swing show up right in the middle of a session before. It will NEVER be resolved unless I rezero, and so you never even know which lie you're working with.

The Sartorious BCE124-1S is actually the cheapest digital scale that you can buy which will allow even a chance (just a chance) at to-the-kernel repeatability. Whether that will mean anything to you down range will depend on too many other variables.

Yesterday, I zeroed the fx120. I wake up this morning... and this is what I see.
sNTwANFh.jpg


I zeroed the Sartorious when I originally turned it on. I have zeroed it one time since because I moved it around. Since then I haven't needed to rezero. No granite plate. No special anti-static tricks. No weird inline power modification. It just works.

Conversely, I have tried everything imaginable to get the fx120 to not drift. ... and it's not just this one. I've had 3 over the years if memory serves. They all behaved like this. So in my opinion, the Sartorious is the only one even worth buying.
 
Jtate said:
What will I gain by upgrading to a Sartorius from my FX 120? The problem have with the FX 120 is that it always drifts and will not hold zero. I always wonder if its operator error or the scale.
Click to expand...
I use Fx120i and I just keep an eye on the readout and rezero when needed. Maybe once every 30 min of use. I’m still at 0.000g after a 30 min warmup. If you control the environment, limit air currents, and pre-warm the balance for 20 min or so, it’s not a big deal. I don’t think your group sizes will improve at all with a pricier balance. I do use a Cyberpower inverter/UPS but no idea if it helps with holding zero. Replacing a $2k balance is not in my future.
 
MikeRu said:
I use Fx120i and I just keep an eye on the readout and rezero when needed. Maybe once every 30 min of use. I’m still at 0.000g after a 30 min warmup. If you control the environment, limit air currents, and pre-warm the balance for 20 min or so, it’s not a big deal. I don’t think your group sizes will improve at all with a pricier balance. I do use a Cyberpower inverter/UPS but no idea if it helps with holding zero. Replacing a $2k balance is not in my future.
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I saw some drift a few times with my A&D but adding a line conditioner changed that completely.
 
MikeRu said:
I use Fx120i and I just keep an eye on the readout and rezero when needed. Maybe once every 30 min of use. I’m still at 0.000g after a 30 min warmup. If you control the environment, limit air currents, and pre-warm the balance for 20 min or so, it’s not a big deal. I don’t think your group sizes will improve at all with a pricier balance. I do use a Cyberpower inverter/UPS but no idea if it helps with holding zero. Replacing a $2k balance is not in my future.
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This thread has finally answered the question about when the system may finally become available after being on the “Wait List“ for nearly a year and getting no reply from Ingenuity after emailing them.
I always “warm up“ my 120i at least 4 hours before hand, have a “choke” on the power cord and used a meter to check on extraneous magnetic/electrical interference {had to move the portable phone cradle away and non-fluro lighting to reduce interference from the ballast.
Once and a while I get a few hundredths {.02 = one granule of Varget} of drift but a rebalance is a snap and it is just hard to imagine I could get better results with a $2K laboratory grade scale.
I do wonder if Area 419 will make upgrade bits for the system to replace the plastic bits such as the powder cup… Plastic around these scales just accents the static electrical problems that can effect the accuracy of the scale.
I got rid of all the printed plastic bits that came with my original Mk 1 Auto Trickler with Area 419 quality machined parts by buying the whole kit and the system up grade to the Ingenuity disk trickler was a major benefit in speeding up the throw time and reducing “over throw”.
 
The only time I've ever seen my Fx120i drift is when I left it on (not standby) for long periods of time without use. It's not a Sartorious and not even close to the same price point either.

Nearly always if there's perceived drift I find powder either in the cup or on the tray that I missed. If i don't see any I just use a rocket blower and give it a couple squeezes around the tray, all good. Heck I can leave it on standby for weeks and it's spot on when I wake it and set the cup on it. Before loading I generally use a few rcbs grain check weights and do a quick sanity check just to be sure it's good to go. Not once has it missed over the last couple years.

Also not in response to anything here, but in general if you own an Fx120i spend the time to actually read the manual. Once you do you'll know why I say that. In computing we call that RTFM because for most folks the cause is PEBKAC... If a person is still having issues, contact support as your scale might have an issue.
 
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I leave my Fx120i on for weeks at a time and still reads zero and mine is just plugged into the wall outlet, no conditioner or anything.

I'm using the v2 trickler and it's pretty quick, just slightly longer than it takes me to seat the bullet. Last session I loaded 100 rounds and had maybe 2 overthrows only. I was going to upgrade to the IG trickler but hard to talk myself into spending $400 when my current setup is running as it is.
 
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Rico-chet said:
What did you use as a line conditioner, if you don't mind sharing? :)
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Tripp Lite worked for me, I sold it with the unit and it is working for its new owner just fine. I don't remember the model, but they make a lot of different price-point equipment. They are worth checking out.

Regards
Rick
 
ballisticdaddy said:
I saw some drift a few times with my A&D but adding a line conditioner changed that completely.
Click to expand...
I have a line conditioner, a static pad, clam shells on the cords, led lights, my bench is 4 inch thick polished concrete. The thing drifts 2 to 4 tenths in 24 hours. I constantly re-zero loading for a match. I have read the manual, my son has read the manual maybe I will get my wife to read it and explain it to me, after all she is a kindergarten teacher.
 
Just thinking . . . , "writing" out loud. I suspect most ac power conditioners use Sola transformers to regulate their ac voltage output. While they do regulate voltage, they're not noted for quick response time to spikes and glitches. I think I'd go a different route and replace the cheap wall-wart power supply with linear dc supply. Linears can be clean, well-regulated low EMI supplies. That's really the goal in my opinion. There are lots of good choices from Mouser or Digikey. Just 20 m$ from an electrical power engineer.
 
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