Chasing the lands vs Jam

[6BRA]

The wheeler method from there you are in or out. Neck tension will determine how far in you can go if that is where you chose to start. Not enough neck tension and soft seating begins.

 

[DLT]

The wheeler method from there you are in or out. Neck tension will determine how far in you can go if that is where you chose to start. Not enough neck tension and soft seating begins.

As far as finding where the lands actually starts “ so called touch” Speedys method is hard to be beat. Bonus if you got smaller hands or skinny fingers it’s no problem at all with the barrel installed

 

[wywindsor]

So does the lead angle play a part in this? If you use a 20-25-30-35 angle depending on the bullet your tension will differ from bullet to bullet. Thoughts

 

[wywindsor]

I shot the gun today using a Satterlee test with a Wheeler test at the same time. I started at 54gr. 4831sc. No value's recorded on shots one and 2. Dumbass on a new to him labradar. Old #s were 2909. I was hit and miss on 54.2, 54.4, 54.6, 54.8 and 55. Every shot what i got info on was right. More powder more speed. Just hit and miss on my part. The 600yd. ladder was going good till i dropped the gun off the bench. I did shoot the 56.2 that was lower than all the rest. I stopped the test to reload and start again.

The new test will be 5 shot groups 2 tenths apart at 600yd. 54 to 57 gr. in 2 tenth increments. Need to save time and willing to use components. Shooting two shots and driving 600yds. takes time. I started the last test with 2 shots at the same grains.

 

[BoydAllen]

As far as finding where the lands actually starts “ so called touch” Speedys method is hard to be beat. Bonus if you got smaller hands or skinny fingers it’s no problem at all with the barrel installed

Actually, I think that one cannot do Speedy's method with the barrel on an action. If you contend that it can be, please explain how you would get a hold of the case's rim. IMO when dealing with a barrel on an action, I think that the method that Alex has publicized is the best. BTW, referring to an earlier post, his method has nothing at all to do with bolt drop.

 

[DLT]

Actually, I think that one cannot do Speedy's method with the barrel on an action. If you contend that it can be, please explain how you would get a hold of the case's rim. IMO when dealing with a barrel on an action, I think that the method that Alex has publicized is the best. BTW, referring to an earlier post, his method has nothing at all to do with bolt drop.

Here is how I do it. You have to have small hands and/or fingers. First I seat a loaded round bullet a little long, then with the butt stock of the rifle sitting on the table or other solid object with the barrel pointed straight up, take the round and insert it into the chamber and use my pinky to push it towards the lands gently leasing it forward and bringing it back out occasionally as to not get grabbed by the lands. One of two things will happen. 1 if it’s too long it will get grabbed by the lands and you will have to tap it out by bumping the stock, using a cleaning rod through the muzzle, or by closing the bolt and extracting it. Or 2 the case shoulder will bottom out against the chamber if you accidentally seated it too short. If this happens simply load another one. If you take it easy while doing this gravity and lightly bumping the stock will dislodge it from the lands then you can seat the bullet a couple more thousandths in and redo the process. Where speedys method is with the barrel pointed down and he’s feeling the bullet stick my method is identical only with the barrel pointed up and action installed. You need to be able to reach the case with any finger while putting it in. If not this method won’t work. It’s tricky but once you get the hang of it it’s easy peasy.

I’m left handed so I usually hold the rifle with my right hand straight up and use my left pinky to push the round through the port and up into the chamber very slowly. If you feel it getting resistance STOP AND TAP THE ROUND OUT. The further you push it in the less likely you will be able to bump the stock to remove it.

As aggravating as it can be please do not knock it before you can try it. I have found it works just as well but without having to remove the barrel

 

[BoydAllen]

Here is how I do it. You have to have small hands and/or fingers. First I seat a loaded round bullet a little long, then with the butt stock of the rifle sitting on the table or other solid object with the barrel pointed straight up, take the round and insert it into the chamber and use my pinky to push it towards the lands gently leasing it forward and bringing it back out occasionally as to not get grabbed by the lands. One of two things will happen. 1 if it’s too long it will get grabbed by the lands and you will have to tap it out by bumping the stock, using a cleaning rod through the muzzle, or by closing the bolt and extracting it. Or 2 the case shoulder will bottom out against the chamber if you accidentally seated it too short. If this happens simply load another one. If you take it easy while doing this gravity and lightly bumping the stock will dislodge it from the lands then you can seat the bullet a couple more thousandths in and redo the process. Where speedys method is with the barrel pointed down and he’s feeling the bullet stick my method is identical only with the barrel pointed up and action installed. You need to be able to reach the case with any finger while putting it in. If not this method won’t work. It’s tricky but once you get the hang of it it’s easy peasy.

I’m left handed so I usually hold the rifle with my right hand straight up and use my left pinky to push the round through the port and up into the chamber very slowly. If you feel it getting resistance STOP AND TAP THE ROUND OUT. The further you push it in the less likely you will be able to bump the stock to remove it.

As aggravating as it can be please do not knock it before you can try it. I have found it works just as well but without having to remove the barrel

Thanks. You can be sure I will try it. You get points for out of the box thinking in any case.

 

[BoydAllen]

BTW, relating to the previous explanation of a version of Speedy's method, I have figured out how to use conventional tools to seat based on shoulder to ogive rather than ogive to base, assuming that the arbor press die has a proper shoulder.

 

[DLT]

Thanks. You can be sure I will try it. You get points for out of the box thinking in any case.

Please please try it. I’ll say it one more time it’s aggravating the first few times to get the “feel” for it. If you go too deep simply close the bolt or tap it out with a rod being carefull at the muzzle

 

[JFrank]

Assuming a clean cut chamber, how much difference do y’all think there would be measuring to the lands using the Hornday L&L tool vs the stripped bolt method ?

 

[Fuj]

Actually, I think that one cannot do Speedy's method with the barrel on an action. If you contend that it can be, please explain how you would get a hold of the case's rim.

My method for years.....Tap the primer pocket and use a cleaning rod
section to screw into it.

 

[DLT]

Assuming a clean cut chamber, how much difference do y’all think there would be measuring to the lands using the Hornday L&L tool vs the stripped bolt method ?

I have never used the hornady tool but I would say it’s dependent on how hard you pushed the bullet into the lands. Stripped bolt method is a pain getting the ejector out of a savage bolt face like I shoot. Or it is for me anyway

 

[JFrank]

Well that’s where the clean cut chamber comes into play, I can lightly push the bullet forward until it stops and get repeatable data. With a Savage that may not be the case. I’m not a bolt stripper although I dated a stripper back in my youthful days.

 

[BoydAllen]

Please please try it. I’ll say it one more time it’s aggravating the first few times to get the “feel” for it. If you go too deep simply close the bolt or tap it out with a rod being carefull at the muzzle

Actually, I have some wood dowels over in the corner that I picked up to use when I use the Hornady tool. I think that I may try a modified version of your method with the rifle laying on its side. Instead of dropping the round I can tap its base with a dowel and feel for if the bullet is stuck in the rifling with the dowel, which I will probably wrap on its end with tape so that it is better centered on the bullets meplat. (But I will try your method first)

 

[DLT]

Actually, I have some wood dowels over in the corner that I picked up to use when I use the Hornady tool. I think that I may try a modified version of your method with the rifle laying on its side. Instead of dropping the round I can tap its base with a dowel and feel for if the bullet is stuck in the rifling with the dowel, which I will probably wrap on its end with tape so that it is better centered on the bullets meplat. (But I will try your method first)

That could work but I use the gravity/weight of the case once the bullet touches the lands it will hold itself in chamber until removed. Seat the bullet only a couple more thou and go again. It’s very repeatable but it helps to know roughly where they are as trips back and forth to press gets old fast as well as in and out of the chamber with your pinky. You could do it the same way with a dowel rod I suppose

 

[jimmymac]

For barrels that are not mounted to the action, the simplest and most repeatable method I’ve used to find touch has been using the tool that @gunsandgunsmithing sells. Simple device. Simple math.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think whatever method you use, the actual measurement means very little but being consistent with your method is what's important. If your method gives you the same number reliably, go with it. Actual numbers are different for every gun/tune and hence, it's just a point of reference for conversation purposes only. I really wouldn't put much value into which way is right or wrong as long as your way gives YOU repeatable numbers.

 

[WEL]

I have never used the hornady tool but I would say it’s dependent on how hard you pushed the bullet into the lands. Stripped bolt method is a pain getting the ejector out of a savage bolt face like I shoot. Or it is for me anyway

I use a wood dowel or coated cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. You push with the hornady tool and the dowel. By working both back and forth you can feel where the bullet is entering the lands. With the hornady tool alone your actually at a hard jam when it stops. Also fwiw precision rifle blog has some data on testing for jump in regards to accuracy. I believe .060 off was found to be the most forgiving.

 

[alintx]

A friend of mine is a world class br shooter (6 th in the world in New Zealand). He said start at nine thou off touching, and go back and forth to see if it gets better. It usually doesn't and I wind up at nine off. Go figure

 

[boltfluter]

Listen to Eagle Six but maybe go to .015 in then start backing out. Term jam is used incorrectly by most. They mean touch. Two different terms. It makes no difference how you measure as long as you get repeating numbers. It is only a reference point. There is no right or wrong answer.

This info is "gold". Most rifles will shoot their absolute best at .010 to .015 into the rifling. All mine do, no doubt. Seen it many times over the years. Plus, with this starting point, there is only one way to go. Easy peasy. I have never pulled a bullet at this initial setting, hunting rifles included. Good shooting!
Paul