New to annealing

[divingin]

If you want to learn about annealing and don't mind reading, AMP has a 5+ part article on the process and what it does and doesn't do. Starts here:

Induction Annealing Brass | Our Research | AMP

View the latest articles from AMP Annealing. Get tips and tricks from our R&D. Here we upload articles to provide your the best possible information on innovations in the annealing process.

www.ampannealing.com

The rest (and more) is found on their site, under Research||Our Research

Be aware that it is presented by a manufacturer, and may be biased towards their product (though I find that less true than most manufacturers' advertising.)

 

[Ccrider]

Do you like the AMP better than the torch(es)? WD

Having used all three methods, there is no comparison between the Amp and torches or salt bath. The Amp is expensive but will pay for itself quickly if you value your time.

To the op, if you can afford the Amp, and have decided that you want to anneal and actually know that you are annealing consistently, go ahead and buy the Amp and don’t waste time with torches.

If you can not afford the Amp and intend to use torches, buy and use templac until you get comfortable and confident using torches. Otherwise you will always be wondering if the flier was caused by your over annealing, or whether your inconsistent neck tension or velocities were caused by your inconsistent annealing.

Last, salt bath annealing works and is another way to know that you are consistently annealing. The problem is the lack of comfort involved in using hot liquid to anneal.

 

[shoot4fun]

I am considering adding an additional torch. A lot of videos I am seeing show two torches.

Do yourself a favor. Go with two torches and feed them via a 20 pound propane bottle.
It's the only way to have a consistent flame, thus consistent heat.
I probably still have the part numbers from Amazon for piping, regulators and good torches.

 

[shoot4fun]

I just ordered an annealer but have never annealed and know nothing about it. The annealer has a timer and I been have searching trying to find out when my brass reaches the proper temperature.

Here are the links to what I use for the two torches on one bottle:

Two torch tips: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008ZA0C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Manifold/splitter with gauge: https://www.amazon.com/DOZYANT-Prop...14397&sprefix=propane+splitter,aps,193&sr=8-3

Hoses: https://www.amazon.com/GasSaf-Assem...29314482&sprefix=propane+hoses,aps,189&sr=8-3

 

[47WillysGuy]

I single torch anneal with a drill motor directing the flame on the body to shoulder area for 7-8 seconds or till the neck turns red.

My numbers from a friend’s Garmin.
ES- 13FPS
SD- 3.6

Low - 2818
Avg- 2824
High- 2831

These are Lapua cases that have 20 loads on them.

Nothing wrong with an Amp, just out of my price range. The paste thing is a pain in the ass. Experiment with a little heat and then increase. You’ll finger it out.

From what I understand, we’re not annealing , we are bringing brass up in temperature. Perfect brass annealing would make the brass unsafe to use. Good luck!

 

[nettle]

Here are the links to what I use for the two torches on one bottle:

Two torch tips: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008ZA0C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Manifold/splitter with gauge: https://www.amazon.com/DOZYANT-Prop...14397&sprefix=propane+splitter,aps,193&sr=8-3

Hoses: https://www.amazon.com/GasSaf-Assem...29314482&sprefix=propane+hoses,aps,189&sr=8-3

Excellent. Thank you!

 

[nettle]

I have been researching this and it has been suggested by some (not here) to use Tempilaq. When I ask those advising "what temp Tempilaq" I had more than reply saying just buy Tempilag. Tempilaq doesn't require a temperature. Well when I go to buy some it sure does require a temperature.

 

[Martin52]

Well when I go to buy some it sure does require a temperature.

Hornady used to sell a templiaq 'kit' (and may still do) - I recall 450 deg and 750 deg. With the 450, paint a line from the shoulder/body junction down the case. The 750 is applied inside the case neck (inside so the flame does not burn it).

 

[MikeRu]

Lots of ways to go, this works well for me and it’s not a lotta $: cartridgeanneal.com

 

[DeerHunter82]

Dad always did 10 seconds with a rotary screwdriver on a propane torch, which is what I've been using for years on Lapua. An old school method indeed. I've experimented with Tempilaq 750 on the neck and spread down the case body. It seems to heat up right to about the shoulder at 10 seconds. I don't believe it heats up to the head at any considerable amount with only 10 seconds of flash annealing. I've also experimented on target with well used Lapua in a 6BR, one batch annealed and one batch not. There was indeed a considerable difference in accuracy. After reading a bit more on the subject, I ordered a bottle of Temp 450 just to see if it gets to that temp at the head with this method.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Dad always did 10 seconds with a rotary screwdriver on a propane torch, which is what I've been using for years on Lapua. An old school method indeed. I've experimented with Tempilaq 750 on the neck and spread down the case body. It seems to heat up right to about the shoulder at 10 seconds. I don't believe it heats up to the head at any considerable amount with only 10 seconds of flash annealing. I've also experimented on target with well used Lapua in a 6BR, one batch annealed and one batch not. There was indeed a considerable difference in accuracy. After reading a bit more on the subject, I ordered a bottle of Temp 450 just to see if it gets to that temp at the head with this method.

Gotta always keep in mind that temperature alone is not a reliable factor. Temperature and time work together to get the right "anneal". For example, 450°F will anneal the brass if left at that temperature for a time; the same goes for using 1,200°F. You've jut got to have the right amount of time for the temperature being use.

For our brass, the faster we can heat it to minimize the heat going down to the case head, the better. That one of the reasons why the AMP machine works so well, because it heats that neck and shoulder up really fast, to 1,000°+ or so, and can stop the heating at precise timing.

 

[DeerHunter82]

Gotta always keep in mind that temperature alone is not a reliable factor. Temperature and time work together to get the right "anneal". For example, 450°F will anneal the brass if left at that temperature for a time; the same goes for using 1,200°F. You've jut got to have the right amount of time for the temperature being use.

For our brass, the faster we can heat it to minimize the heat going down to the case head, the better. That one of the reasons why the AMP machine works so well, because it heats that neck and shoulder up really fast, to 1,000°+ or so, and can stop the heating at precise timing.

That's good information. Well said.

I actually read this article today: https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/40/annealing-under-the-microscope/

 

[SeabeeKen]

Annie works well for me

 

[Shooter13]

Do you like the AMP better than the torch(es)? WD

No comparison! AMP every time.

 

[nettle]

Got this set up and running today. When the annealer was shipped the knob on the controller must have been bumped and it crunched the face plate and controller. An email to AGS and they emailed me an Amazon link for a replacement controller and reimbursed the same day. Had the new controller three days later. Not the most sophisticated thing or high volume in the world but very well made. I would never started annealing had I never found this AGS at this price. Very happy with it.

 

[D Coots]

Great service from AGS. Great little tool.

 

[DeerHunter82]

I ran a few experiments on my 10 second annealing process. I applied 750 on the inside of the neck and 450 from the shoulder to the head. Just above the middle of the case and down did not increase to a measurable temperature. I do believe I need to decrease the timing by 3 seconds. I could be wrong and I would definitely like some feedback. The 750 melts a few seconds before the 10 second mark. If I stop before then, it does not anneal to the shoulder area. What is best practice? Immediately after neck hits 750 or a few seconds after? I've attached the pictures of three test brass. You can see the stop line for the 450 Tempilaq.

 

[MikeRu]

I ran a few experiments on my 10 second annealing process. I applied 750 on the inside of the neck and 450 from the shoulder to the head. Just above the middle of the case and down did not increase to a measurable temperature. I do believe I need to decrease the timing by 3 seconds. I could be wrong and I would definitely like some feedback. The 750 melts a few seconds before the 10 second mark. If I stop before then, it does not anneal to the shoulder area. What is best practice? Immediately after neck hits 750 or a few seconds after? I've attached the pictures of three test brass. You can see the stop line for the 450 Tempilaq.

I use 2 propane torches (Anneal Rite, see attached pic) and I’m stopping about 1-2 sec after the 750 Tempilaq turns color. Important to turn off any air circulation. Uncertain about this but my recollection is that the Tempilaq 450 on my cases is not changing color quite as far down as yours, so maybe drop back on time a little. Anneal Rite provides aluminum blocks that absorb heat from the lower case body (see pic), seems like a great approach to me.

I feel like all the various options for annealing (many great products out there) get much simpler if you just focus on your seating pressures using a K&M guage over a Wilson seater, or one of the other setups out there. If bullet seating pressures are very very consistent, such as a ~ range of +\-10% (e.g. 30 lb +\- 2 lb which I get with my 6.5 Creedmoor and a couple other calibers), you may not be able to improve on that a whole bunch, or it may not show up on target. Using a guage I feel like I can perceive smaller differences (+\- ~10%) in seating pressure pretty well, or well enough. Other opinions are well worth considering.

 

[Cecil S.]

I am a Bench Source guy. Just what I learned on and to old and stubborn to change. The newer units are nice but I am comfortable with what I have. Yes two torches are much faster, 2.0 sec. cycle time. with all room lights off you can see the process. I respect the guys that anneal with a socket and screwdriver watching flame color.

 

[Webster]

I single torch anneal with a drill motor directing the flame on the body to shoulder area for 7-8 seconds or till the neck turns red.

My numbers from a friend’s Garmin.
ES- 13FPS
SD- 3.6

Low - 2818
Avg- 2824
High- 2831

These are Lapua cases that have 20 loads on them.

Nothing wrong with an Amp, just out of my price range. The paste thing is a pain in the ass. Experiment with a little heat and then increase. You’ll finger it out.

From what I understand, we’re not annealing , we are bringing brass up in temperature. Perfect brass annealing would make the brass unsafe to use. Good luck!

Someone elses post:
From what I understand, we’re not annealing , we are bringing brass up in temperature. Perfect brass annealing would make the brass unsafe to use. Good luck!

My response:
Does not make sense (we are not annealing)? The hardness changes. Annealing is a generic term you can anneal to many hardness levels. Annealing does not mean you are making it dead soft.