I'm A Baaaaaaadddd Man!!

[loinhunter]

Good that you are doing this. One thing you mentioned that stood out...at our age, no punching with a closed fist! Bone breaks too easily! Palm heel, hammers, knife-edge (the old “karate chop”), elbows, etc. Bending and twisting of joints...but whatever situation presents itself, once it’s go time act quickly and decisively!

Our church security team has not had such training. We did have a meeting in which a recently retired detective came in to speak and I guess kind of educate us. Very nice and likeable guy. He had a therapy dog! One of the things he told us was, you are better off not carrying a gun because you have the temptation to use it, and now you’ve introduced a deadly weapon into a “very dynamic situation” saying you’re more likely to shoot innocents or get shot yourself when the “professionals” arrive on scene.

Of course we didn’t take his advice. But our “team” is not very organized. We’re lucky to know who each other are. I dealt with a series of health issues that kept me off my feet pretty much for about 5 months and when I went back to church I found out the old team leader was not the leader anymore and the new leader was a lady whom I never would have guessed would be suited for the role. We’ve got guys who haven’t had any shooting practice or training in years. Like 4 or 5 years. Or more. I personally know guys who carry pistols they have never fired!

Some of the things you said remind me of that Jethro Tull song Wounded, Old, and Treacherous

We had a situation years ago where 4 guys came in early before Sunday service looking for the Pastor who wasn't there yet but the janitor who is an honest-to-goodness ex Marine and taught some form of martial art at a local school...he confronted them and they beat him badly and put him in the hospital.

Yeah, 68 ish is definitely “Too Old to Rock and Roll, and too young to die.”

 

[snert]

I'm a Sheepdog.....Always have been.....It's in my nature. Not paranoid, just aware.....I am glad more people are choosing to train to take better care of themselves in emergencies. The vast majority of folks freeze.

Regards
Rick

Google "normalcy bias" and then take a gander at the various videos of the Lakewood Church shooting. Take special note of the bizarro behavior of parishoners. They walked by the shooter who was holding a slung AR in the vestibule. One family stayed in the sanctuary as 40 some rounds are fired outside, even as cops shouted for them to leave. (You see it thru their video!). But best of all is the guy at the end of thier pew. Sitting cross legged watching the people run to safety like he is eating a bowl of popcorn.
Watch the dumb bunny usher (unarmed) who repeatedly walks in front of the armed Alcohol commission officer to "point the way to the shooter", like he is guiding him to the mens room.
Then watch the cops...OMG. One hears the AR pop off and says "What was that". Honey, you work in Houston. I KNOW you have been on an indoor range. YOU KNOW what that noisy thingy is, but your brain is in coffee and donuts denial. Lastly, watch for the signs of confused response due to the disparity between the ACTIONS of the shooter and the WORDS of the shooter. It's like everyone wants to beleive that she really is asking for a little help is all, even while mag dumping an AR in church. (I won't even comment on the guy who can't seem to operate a gun and a radio...either one...well.)

After all this, give some serious thought to the reality that EVERYONE suffers from normalcy bias. The only way to overcome it is to change NORMAL in your head. Que up Jeff Cooper any time now.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Throat, eyes, groin if you are to close for tools. We had an executive protection/self defense guy at our last community meeting. Very informative about what the FBI has released to local law enforcement, pertaining to terrorists cells that have entered the country in the last 3 years. And how the next attack will likely follow the Oct 7 attack plan in Israel. US holiday/Muslim religious day attack on a large gathering, secondary attack on utilities/infrastructure, 3rd part branching into neighborhoods. It will be an effort to start large scale civil unrest.

 

[Eagle Six]

I'm not a member of a church group but am a member of a group. My commitment is to be the first, or one of the first, on scene. At my age, during chest to chest battle I'm not likely to prevail, but will slow him/them down. My orders to the team, with no other alternative, is to shoot through me and as I go down continue to shoot until the perps are down. None of us get out of this shit anyway.

Kudo's for training.

 

[Wildcats]

I carry a blade everywhere i go.i'm 62 ,but still quick for my age. spent most of my younger years as a cross country runner and a gym rat at times.not anywhere in the shape that i was 10-15 years ago though .even with my recent cancer issue i still try to get out for walks and short joggs here and there. sometimes i just walk with light dumbbells to do some light bicep /tricep workout .not much,but try doing it for an hour or so.
As you get older light weight lifting is a must for men in order to maintain muscle,even some light cross fit with dumbbells can make a difference. recently picked up a small home gym to get back into it again.

 

[Cigarcop]

Oh yeah, slapping the shit outta someone!!
They have slapping competitions now, kind of fun to watch grown men and women put the SMACK down on their opponent.

Sometimes I feel I should slap the shit outta you….. but I’d need a stool to do it!! Lol

 

[Bc'z]

Sometimes I feel I should slap the shit outta you….. but I’d need a stool to do it!! Lol

Cant stop laughing...
I'm sure you're more n capable of defending yourself against bigger fellas.

 

[jds holler]

As I learned in my recent training, if you're inclined to slap the shit out of an attacker, simply adjust that slap to cover the ear with a cupped hand. It will likely rupture the ear drum, causing horrible pain, loss of balance/equilibrium, and probably take the sap out of most attackers. And if the dummy gives ya the chance to get both ears, so much the better. jd

 

[snert]

As I learned in my recent training, if you're inclined to slap the shit out of an attacker, simply adjust that slap to cover the ear with a cupped hand. It will likely rupture the ear drum, causing horrible pain, loss of balance/equilibrium, and probably take the sap out of most attackers. And if the dummy gives ya the chance to get both ears, so much the better. jd

Huh?

 

[AccelR8]

As I learned in my recent training, if you're inclined to slap the shit out of an attacker, simply adjust that slap to cover the ear with a cupped hand. It will likely rupture the ear drum, causing horrible pain, loss of balance/equilibrium, and probably take the sap out of most attackers. And if the dummy gives ya the chance to get both ears, so much the better. jd

I was on the receiving side of that one time. Didn't rupture the eardrum but was very painful and disorienting. Some take aways; learn to block, sharpen reaction times, and fight through pain.

 

[jds holler]

Some other "take aways" from my bit of training is -- The first guy to make a move - an effective one - usually takes the day. And your move shouldn't be a single action, but a combination of strikes that will progressively disable your attacker. And don't forget that when he is down, means that it is REALLY your turn. jd

 

[majohnson]

Some friends have a church that the area has changed. The pastor mentioned that limiting valuables and making any donations online would make things safer for all.

 

[AccelR8]

Some friends have a church that the area has changed. The pastor mentioned that limiting valuables and making any donations online would make things safer for all.

At a friend's church, caught on video. At the end of the service, "Please stand to your feet...with every head bowed and all eyes closed...yada yada..." One lady had her handbag on the seat next to her. The woman behind her surreptitiously leans forward, reaches down into the handbag, takes out the wallet and then heads for the door.

 

[bluealtered]

Jds made a very good point, if you are going to be attacked, don't be reactive. There are times that the first blow to the other person can or may change the outcome of the fight.

Another thing to consider is that if you are middle age or older, ... no matter what your brain may tell you, you are slower now than you were when you were young and in shape. Sorry but this is just a fact of life.

Another thing here is very simple, any form of self defense that is done slowly can also be done quickly. One of the reasons forms like Tia Chi are done slowly is so that those with poor balance can regain their ability to move quickly when needed.

When I was in junior high I had a math teacher who was maybe 5' 6' and maybe 100lbs. We had a bully in that class who probably weighed 200lbs and he always started trouble in class. One day the teacher simply walked up behind the bully and pinched his right shoulder, almost instantly the bully was on the floor crying for the teacher to stop.
There are many pressure points on the human body, it only takes a few minutes to learn them, using them allows you to possibly stop the attack without using a gun or knife. When you have that person on the ground, be sure to teach them not to do that again.

 

[davidjoe]

It’s going to be interesting to see Mike Tyson at about 57 box a much younger man who is in very good shape, but does not undertake boxing heavy weight champions of his own time.

Tyson was about 18 or 19 at ascension so he is quite literally 3 times the age he was as a new champion.

Reflexes and speed in movement over short distances I would say, change more than inherent strength or toughness of the parts of the body utilized the most in combat sports.

 

[sandwarrior]

When I became a Ranger in the early 80's it was impressed upon us that we were going to need to fight like hell if it came down to it. And, since we were paratroopers, likely surrounded.
Basic defense techniques like what you learned are practiced daily. It didn't take long for me to see that a couple years out of the Rangers, I had lost that physical edge. I no longer ran so didn't have the cardio level that I had when I was in. Even working construction was not enough. It kept you in shape physically, but not the cardio. That and a major knee surgery
At that point I decided I was going to have to place an emphasis on things to do for self defense. It was always a joke about SF (Rangers incl.) soldiers always being polite and professionally respectful, but have a plan to kill that motherfucker if you need to. So, ever since that point I knew to develop a plan everytime I met someone new, or was around someone I didn't feel I could trust.

 

[davidjoe]

^^ I’ve been hearing this last part from my wife, for decades .

 

[Evan]

Makes me think of that famous quote: “If you’re in a fair fight then your tactics suck”

I was taught to strike with more durable parts of my body and not punch.

 

[snert]

When I tought law enforcement Use of Force my mantra was "Maximum allowable (legal and justified) appropriate force immediately". While this approach raised eyebrows, it also resulted in a win to loss ration that has me still here today. I am not a born fighter, am not a strong person, am not a physical specimen, unless you consider specimens to be formydehyde preserved relics. But it was rare for me to totally lose, needing a back-up to drag someone off me, though that happened. When it did, in retrospect I learned it happened because I ignored my mantra. More often the application of that mindset resulted in a firm and complete win with the "subject" handily bagged and tagged.

With badge cams and the prevelance of security cams, I watch daily videos and so often see prolonged and protracted "rassling" or "goat ropes" take place that would have ended so much faster, so much safer and with less injury if the sheepdog had fully committed at GO and simply won with overwhelming force coupled with sneakiness. Take thier eyes (OC), take the wind (OC) take the balance (upend them) and keep it coming until you flatly dominate. (It's great if you keep yelling at them to comly...it keeps your lungs working but rarely compels them to listen)...but again, the idea is to win. If you are old like me, that means you have about three seconds to be in total dominance, so you gotta go HARD. After that, I am afraid I would be too broken, too weak and too outta air to continue to win. Just facts.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

That incident was a total fail from GO. Just how a guy in a wig, with a trench coat and a shotty IN HIS PANTS was allowed to enter, let alone go to the front row, sit, stand, and the initial response was to put someone "near him" is an indication that this team practiced REACTION, not intervention. The team leader was one hell of a shot, but they trained to shoot, not to stop a situation before it turned into a problem. It takes a certain kind of person, and a strong sense of confidence (it helps if there is a big insurance policy held on your behalf) and constant realistic scenario training to be willing to walk up to an "itchy" in a crowd, firmly confront (in a Christian manner of course) and be willing to go to ground based on your observation, your training and your ability. That shooter should have never made it past the threshold of that church, and after a firm hello, a warm and smiling stop, and polite demands of going no further he should have been controlled. THAT takes skills.

JD, so glad you are getting some training.

By the time the guns come out, in a very real way something has already been lost. Now, don't interpret what I just said as some wimpy whiny lefty pie in sky anti-gun utterance. What I am saying is it is very hard to intervene based on a gut...cause if you are wrong you get sued, looked at like a crazy paranoid, a racist, a homophobe or a warmonger. But it is in protecting (think secret service) that the real hard stuff and decison making happens. Physical control techniques, restraints (cuffs?) OC spray and the willingness to win, right now, not in some extended "rassling" match are a must for a church security team.

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