New to annealing

[nettle]

I just ordered an annealer but have never annealed and know nothing about it. The annealer has a timer and I been have searching trying to find out when my brass reaches the proper temperature.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I just ordered an annealer but have never annealed and know nothing about it. The annealer has a timer and I been have searching trying to find out when my brass reaches the proper temperature.

You can buy some Tempilaq to put on your brass and it'll tell you the temperature according to the particular Tempilaq's temperature rating. Often, 750°F Tempilaq is suggested, but IMHO, that's not high enough to get good results.

I much prefer using the "glow method". The "glow method" is where you shut out all light (or very little as the torch will provide some light) and set the timing so that the case is dropped out of the flame as soon as the brass neck begins to glow (orange or red. . .however you want to describe the color). When it starts to glow like that, you're approaching 1,000°F on the neck. When I do this on my .308 Lapua cases, it takes ~5-6 seconds where this method has worked well for me.

Keep in mind that different cases with different neck thicknesses and difference in the alloy will take different amounts of time, give a particular level of flame (or time in an induction annealer). For example, the time it takes to anneal a .308 Alpha case can be significantly more than it takes a .308 Lapua case. So, any time I get different brass, or lot of brass, I'll run the "glow method" to determine the time I should use.

 

[JMayo]

Ya didn't say what kind.
My bench source, 2 gas torches, I'd watch for a little red and turn it down just below that.
The idea is to get the the neck and shoulder up to temp fast as possible so the heat won't go down the case. It's hard to do with one torch, imo.

Now i have an amp

 

[nettle]

This is the annealer. It has the option to add an additional torch but going to try it with one for now.

AGS Brass Annealer - AGS Custom Parts

AGS Custom Parts - AGS Brass Annealer

agscustomparts.com

You can buy some Tempilaq to put on your brass and it'll tell you the temperature according to the particular Tempilaq's temperature rating. Often, 750°F Tempilaq is suggested, but IMHO, that's not high enough to get good results.

I much prefer using the "glow method". The "glow method" is where you shut out all light (or very little as the torch will provide some light) and set the timing so that the case is dropped out of the flame as soon as the brass neck begins to glow (orange or red. . .however you want to describe the color). When it starts to glow like that, you're approaching 1,000°F on the neck. When I do this on my .308 Lapua cases, it takes ~5-6 seconds where this method has worked well for me.

Keep in mind that different cases with different neck thicknesses and difference in the alloy will take different amounts of time, give a particular level of flame (or time in an induction annealer). For example, the time it takes to anneal a .308 Alpha case can be significantly more than it takes a .308 Lapua case. So, any time I get different brass, or lot of brass, I'll run the "glow method" to determine the time I should use.

I am leaning towards this method. I have been reading up on this and other methods. It's amazing how many different suggestions there are out there for doing a relatively simple thing.

 

[nmkid]

You Tube could be your friend. You'll like the AGS.

 

[6.5 forever]

You Tube could be your friend. You'll like the AGS.

Good collection of how to videos on there.

 

[nettle]

Been on youtube a big part of the day. That's why I am asking here.

 

[Straightshooter1]

This is the annealer. It has the option to add an additional torch but going to try it with one for now.

AGS Brass Annealer - AGS Custom Parts

AGS Custom Parts - AGS Brass Annealer

agscustomparts.com

I am leaning towards this method. I have been reading up on this and other methods. It's amazing how many different suggestions there are out there for doing a relatively simple thing.

In my limited experience, I found a single pencil flame torch not good enough to get a uniform result on a neck and shoulder. At least, not with a larger case like a .308 or 6.5 PRC. Two pencil flame torches helps a lot in getting the uniform anneal job that's preferred. I switched out my pencil flame torch head for a single swirl flame torch head and that swirl flame surrounds the neck and shoulder nicely to where I get a nice even, uniform anneal job.

 

[FeMan]

I flame anneal and use the "glow" method. Another thing I look at is the color of off-cast flame. When it changes from blue to orange, I take the brass out. The timing of this corresponds pretty well with the glow method. I believe this may be the point where the zinc molecules on the surface start to burn and produce an oxidized flame. I dont really know though, but can say it works well.

 

[nettle]

In my limited experience, I found a single pencil flame torch not good enough to get a uniform result on a neck and shoulder. At least, not with a larger case like a .308 or 6.5 PRC. Two pencil flame torches helps a lot in getting the uniform anneal job that's preferred. I switched out my pencil flame torch head for a single swirl flame torch head and that swirl flame surrounds the neck and shoulder nicely to where I get a nice even, uniform anneal job.

I am considering adding an additional torch. A lot of videos I am seeing show two torches.

 

[nettle]

I flame anneal and use the "glow" method. Another thing I look at is the color of off-cast flame. When it changes from blue to orange, I take the brass out. The timing of this corresponds pretty well with the glow method. I believe this may be the point where the zinc molecules on the surface start to burn and produce an oxidized flame. I dont really know though, but can say it works well.

I am leaning towards this method.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I flame anneal and use the "glow" method. Another thing I look at is the color of off-cast flame. When it changes from blue to orange, I take the brass out. The timing of this corresponds pretty well with the glow method. I believe this may be the point where the zinc molecules on the surface start to burn and produce an oxidized flame. I dont really know though, but can say it works well.

Just an FYI: when zinc burns, it burns with a bluish color. Also, zinc doesn't burn until it reaches over 1,600°F. The only way I know of for zinc to be burned out of an alloy like brass is for it to first be melted to a liquid.

When I see that orangish flame coming off, it seems to be more about the cleaning and/or sizing material that left a coating on the surface. When I cleaned some brass with steel wool and annealed afterward, I didn't get the orangish flame I normally see. But, as you suggest, that orangish flame does seem to regularly appear just before the brass will glow.

 

[nettle]

Just ordered the additional torch option. Down the rabbit hole I go. I knew this going in.

 

[JMayo]

When i first started i was very uncomfortable but i kept at it doing the best i could. As time went on i got better and more confident. I didn't worry about the ones that turn redder than i want,ed they still shot good. I tried not to get em that hot. But it happens in
I Watched the flame strength along with the time.
Manage both. Low flame = long time in fire= heat migrates down.

I found With two torches Too much flame the brass will glow right at that point, not getting the rest of the sholder or neck. I think i was on 4.5 with the blue flame 1/8 from the brass.

 

[WyleWD]

Ya didn't say what kind.
My bench source, 2 gas torches, I'd watch for a little red and turn it down just below that.
The idea is to get the the neck and shoulder up to temp fast as possible so the heat won't go down the case. It's hard to do with one torch, imo.

Now i have an amp

Do you like the AMP better than the torch(es)? WD

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I just ordered an annealer but have never annealed and know nothing about it. The annealer has a timer and I been have searching trying to find out when my brass reaches the proper temperature.

I would hope your new Annealer would come with instructions that would help get you started. I have found that the time needed can vary with how I have my touch is adjusted and where I have it pointed.. Like a lot of other things you can let it get over complicate. I normally just run a few pieces of old brass until I’M happy with what I see. And about the only way I can test the brass is no split necks and the feel I get when setting the bullet. Any that’s what works for ME
good luck with your new Adventure

 

[JMayo]

Do you like the AMP better than the torch(es)? WD

I haven't used it long but it's looking like i do . The lack of feeling in control bothers me but i suppose it's doing the job without me actually seeing the brass heat up. Wasting a piece sucks but i have my #'s it gave me. I haven't chose to change them yet. I think I'll go up a number or two in the future.

It's fast as i can get them out of the box. Also incorporating cleaning the necks on the bench is new to me. So managing the "New" way of doing it all is coming together well.

No more watching flames or messing with timing knob. I can watch TV while annealing !

 

[rwj]

Do you like the AMP better than the torch(es)? WD

Yes. It reduced the variation in case neck diameters and base to shoulder offset dimensions after sizing.

 

[FeMan]

I flame anneal and use the "glow" method. Another thing I look at is the color of off-cast flame. When it changes from blue to orange, I take the brass out. The timing of this corresponds pretty well with the glow method. I believe this may be the point where the zinc molecules on the surface start to burn and produce an oxidized flame. I dont really know though, but can say it works well.

Just an FYI: when zinc burns, it burns with a bluish color. Also, zinc doesn't burn until it reaches over 1,600°F. The only way I know of for zinc to be burned out of an alloy like brass is for it to first be melted to a liquid.

When I see that orangish flame coming off, it seems to be more about the cleaning and/or sizing material that left a coating on the surface. When I cleaned some brass with steel wool and annealed afterward, I didn't get the orangish flame I normally see. But, as you suggest, that orangish flame does seem to regularly appear just before the brass will glow.

Good to know. I wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for the information!

 

[asquared19]

I also use the glow method. I have 2-3 cases of "sacrificial anneal prep" brass in each caliber. during each annealing session I adjust timing with these pieces, and then do my batch. as mentioned, different brands will require different timing as well.