What 22LR Reamer & Barrel

[Hi-NV Shooter]

0.135" - 0.145" stick out dependent on rifiling pattern, bore dimensions, and leade angle. I do not change this based on ammo brand. I want all I can get without running into issues late into a card with pretty much any lot. A person may get away with as much as 0.150" stick out or a tick more at times with certain combinations but it typically turns into to much from what I have seen. People like you have success with minimal engraving but it is just not what I found to work best for our program.

Thanks Tad, for the information. yes, I have had great results using a stick out of 0.075 - 0.080 from what I seen it seems to be friendlier for finding lots to shoot and be usable. I am not sure if the barrels I use makes any difference as I have only used 3G Benchmarks.
I do have one 3G that has a smaller bore dimension and gave more engraving even with the 0.075 stick out that barrel was not as friendly in shooting the same lots I have. I plan to try an Octagon and see if I get the same results.

Lee

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

I have had the pleasure to do work behind Gorham, Davis, Langley, Wilkinson, and a few others where I was able to look at their work and been around plenty of Penrod's. They do fine work but they are far from the only people capable of competitive work. They would tell you this themselves. I have also had the pleasure of seeing work first hand from less cited smiths such as Kerley, Halcomb, James Carroll, and others with their work being just as fine using those old south bends or similar in their garage. Matter of fact, I do not think it would be a stretch to say that its probably been just as many or more competitive barrels spun up on a south bend or similar such as the old stand by Heavy 10. This business that a certain smith must be anointed to do competitive work is perpetuated way to often and usually comes from people that have no experience in the work. Pride in your smith is a great thing and something that should be shown, but claiming they are the only place to get competitive equipment is not so great. Good machine work comes down to the person knowing their machine and how to operate it with the appropriate goals and targets in mind.

Tad

^^^^^^-This!
Well I thought I was done, but this post is the best
thing I’ve read on this thread, and in my opinion the most accurate especially the last paragraph.
The proof as they say is in the pudding and the bottom line is the barrels seem to shoot.
But then we aren’t “big time RF BR shooters” out here on the Left coast.(With the exception of Dennis aka the NW hammer .)
Oh and thanks for defending my Heavy 10, I was starting to feel inadequate..
One final thought, if one of the “top” RFBR shooters shot my rifle in a match and I shot theirs I’m pretty sure who would still come out on top. JMHO
Over & out.
G

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've often wondered how VuDoo got their name. It all makes sense now.

 

[PWNolan]

Pride in your smith is a great thing and something that should be shown, but claiming they are the only place to get competitive equipment is not so great

Tad

Kind of putting words in my mouth there Tad. Stiller isn't MY gunsmith. There's several people I'd trust to do work for me. I alao never claimed Stiller was the only place to get competitive equipment. That's just a silly statement!

You and Todd have both helped me out quite a bit over past several months. I appreciate it. See you around

EDIT: I regret not having chosen my words more wisely. I simply wanted to say that I think some of these guys are putting a lot more into their chamber work than some might make it seem. I also didn't meant to disrespect guys that are using older equipment and doing their own work. Quite the opposite in fact. I used to have access to older machine tools (along with some newer machine tools) and I'd love to be one of those guys again myself. One of my brothers is a full-service gunsmith who does very high quality metal work. He's one of the best machinists I've ever seen and he does it all on older machine tools

 

[Intell]

Non rimfire guys telling Tony Harper about Rimfire. Double LoL

 

[USMCDOC]

Having not used 1000s of rf barrels like I have cf barrels I dont have strong opions yet. But I am starting to gain a preference for the 8 groove Mullerworks because of how they have been slugging. Just like with cf my preferences can and will if I see changes in the products.

MI barrel?

 

[Tony K Harper]

^^^^^^-This!
Well I thought I was done, but this post is the best
thing I’ve read on this thread, and in my opinion the most accurate especially the last paragraph.
The proof as they say is in the pudding and the bottom line is the barrels seem to shoot.
But then we aren’t “big time RF BR shooters” out here on the Left coast.(With the exception of Dennis aka the NW hammer .)
Oh and thanks for defending my Heavy 10, I was starting to feel inadequate..
One final thought, if one of the “top” RFBR shooters shot my rifle in a match and I shot theirs I’m pretty sure who would still come out on top. JMHO
Over & out.
G

G,

Tads post is something we can agree on. The pic shows my shop and my Heavy 10. I've used that Heavy 10 to produce some good shooting rimfire barrels.

Until this morning, I have not had the advantage of knowing who you are, or your background of experience.

Since your experience is in centerfire, I now understand your ignition comment.

Centerfire ignition with those perfectly self-contained primers is a far cry from rimfire.

We have a circle of primer mixture spun around the inside of our case heads. Our ignition, and to a degree our accuracy, is dependent upon hitting that case head very consistently shot to shot.

Accuracy in rimfire can be dependent on properly tuned ignition. Meaning, the firing pin fall, the weight of the firing pin, the location of the strike, and the actual footprint of the pin, and location of the trigger are all part of tuning rimfire ignition. Not so with centerfire.

When I shot centerfire about all that was done for ignition was buy the best, most popular, primers, clean the pockets and seat them. Please advise if things have changed.

I know we got off to a bad start and if I owe you an apology, you have it.

TKH

 

[Hozzie]

Tony, I think there is simply a miscommunication here. I didn't get the impression he was linking the two. I took it more as it doesn't matter how good the barrel or chamber job is if the other aspects (in this case ignition) also aren't up to what it needs to be.

That's the trouble with forums, we interpret words the way we want to see them, not always as they were intended. I am as bad as anyone at times at it, so I say it with myself in mind, but think this got twisted out of sorts for no reason.

Just my opinion.

 

[Hozzie]

Non rimfire guys telling Tony Harper about Rimfire. Double LoL

The day we stop questioning those that have experience is the day we don't make progress. Tony has his views, but so do many others with experience.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

G,

Tads post is something we can agree on. The pic shows my shop and my Heavy 10. I've used that Heavy 10 to produce some good shooting rimfire barrels.

Until this morning, I have not had the advantage of knowing who you are, or your background of experience.

Since your experience is in centerfire, I now understand your ignition comment.

Centerfire ignition with those perfectly self-contained primers is a far cry from rimfire.

We have a circle of primer mixture spun around the inside of our case heads. Our ignition, and to a degree our accuracy, is dependent upon hitting that case head very consistently shot to shot.

Accuracy in rimfire can be dependent on properly tuned ignition. Meaning, the firing pin fall, the weight of the firing pin, the location of the strike, and the actual footprint of the pin, and location of the trigger are all part of tuning rimfire ignition. Not so with centerfire.

When I shot centerfire about all that was done for ignition was buy the best, most popular, primers, clean the pockets and seat them. Please advise if things have changed.

I know we got off to a bad start and if I owe you an apology, you have it.

TKH

No problem!
I sometimes do not make myself as clear as I probably should when I post things on the forums.
I just was trying to point out that I, as someone who has a fair (36 yrs) amount of experience working with
machine tools, was buying into the commonly held belief that their was something "magical" about doing
RF barrels. I had a well known CF gunsmith that I know tell me I was crazy to even try.
"That will never work, you have to be one of the chosen ones"
Once I did a couple I found that the basic machining processes were essentially the same, with the often pointed out exception of throat treatment. CF as I'm sure you know we let the first 2-3 rds down the barrel take care of any throat "roughness" (which with a properly reamed chamber shouldn't amount to much).
Lead bullets, whole different story.
That said I do not consider myself a "gunsmith" or a "machinist".
I have some pretty high standards for both those titles, I'm just a guy who took a 2yr Machine Technology night course at a local JC, learned the basics, (never leave the chuck key in the chuck!) bought a 71 vintage SB Heavy Tool Room that had been gone through, an old as I am Step Pulley Bridgeport and the rest was learning by doing. I figure if I don't learn something every time I'm in the shop I'm not paying attention.
Long winded way of saying apology more than accepted and if I was being perceived as "flippant" I do apologize as well, that's the problem with not being face to face over a beer. You lose the nuances of the discussion.
Greg

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Non rimfire guys telling Tony Harper about Rimfire. Double LoL

So even though I shoot RF (IR50/50) and finished in the top 10 in the country on the Unlimited List points,
I'm not a "RF Guy"?? God I feel so inadequate.
Please let me in on the secret handshake before the next match.
(Sarcasm intended, just to clarify)
You guys crack me up.

 

[TRSR8]

So even though I shoot RF (IR50/50) and finished in the top 10 in the country on the Unlimited List points,
I'm not a "RF Guy"?? God I feel so inadequate.
Please let me in on the secret handshake before the next match.
(Sarcasm intended, just to clarify)
You guys crack me up.

Just so you know, list points as much as anything are heavily weighted toward participation as anything else.
State, Regional, National matches and 3 guns ,with mixed company where you win…..that’s an entirely different deal. That would be an accurate “ real world” test of your skill set, as a shooter and smith.

 

[TRSR8]

Having not used 1000s of rf barrels like I have cf barrels I dont have strong opions yet. But I am starting to gain a preference for the 8 groove Mullerworks because of how they have been slugging. Just like with cf my preferences can and will if I see changes in the products.

Alex, since you seem to do a lot of testing in the CF world, I would be most interested having you circle back after some shooting of the 8’s in regards to your thoughts on their performance in the wind.
Several folks feel they lack in that regard. I just had one fit as well but I’d like to hear your thoughts. Still a couple months away from any testing with weather around here.

 

[TRSR8]

What part of what I stated can't you quite understand?
Your condescention and feeble criticism of other members is boring and contrived.
Is that clear enough?

Do you have any contribution here other than looking foolish as well as uninformed?

 

[Mt.Boy]

Having not used 1000s of rf barrels like I have cf barrels I dont have strong opions yet. But I am starting to gain a preference for the 8 groove Mullerworks because of how they have been slugging. Just like with cf my preferences can and will if I see changes in the products.

Have you tested any of the 4groove mi muller barrels. Just wondered your opinion on them

 

[bugman]

Do you have any contribution here other than looking foolish as well as uninformed

Actually, I do. Why don't you check out my profile, membership date, and trading history. When you imagine an original thought on that, get back to me.
In the meantime, lets discuss why you want to defend a history of condescension, bullying, and triggered replies, and what makes you think I am uninformed.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Just so you know, list points as much as anything are heavily weighted toward participation as anything else.
State, Regional, National matches and 3 guns ,with mixed company where you win…..that’s an entirely different deal. That would be an accurate “ real world” test of your skill set, as a shooter and smith.

So no secret handshake huh?
See I knew I was inadequate, guess the 2020 Cal State 50 Yd Championship doesn't count, oh well.
And by the way I'll be sure and let Jason know that he needs to revamp his ranking system so it meets the approval of real world RFBR shooters.
Like I said, you guys crack me up

 

[TRSR8]

Actually, I do. Why don't you check out my profile, membership date, and trading history. When you imagine an original thought on that, get back to me.
In the meantime, lets discuss why you want to defend a history of condescension, bullying, and triggered replies, and what makes you think I am uninformed.

So…..no.

 

[TRSR8]

So no secret handshake huh?
See I knew I was inadequate, guess the 2020 Cal State 50 Yd Championship doesn't count, oh well.
And by the way I'll be sure and let Jason know that he needs to revamp his ranking system so it meets the approval of real world RFBR shooters.
Like I said, you guys crack me up

Congratulations, nice start.
FWIW it‘s not Jasons’s system, been there for decades and it has always trended toward participation as a componant.

 

[bugman]

So…..no.

Is that secret code?