F-Class now has it's own Rules Book (2024)
- Thread starter F Class John
- Start date
Talked to Rod think I will spend more time shooting the bull with more time with ear plugs than my hearing aids. Don’t need so many rules i make my own rests and bags. Give that a try!!
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
Here we go.
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
First, I'll lead off with rules, whether we like them or not matter and I think we all agree on that. Also, YES I realize it's the responsibility of the competitor to know the rules for the discipline they shoot and they should do their own due diligence to research it and know them.
HOWEVER.....that's not reality in many cases
I think the big thing for me is how do we get these rules to the people who need them. Not the day-in day-out competitors who track this stuff, but the people at club matches where they just have fun with 'mostly F Class'. It matters because when one or more of those club shooters want to shoot a state, regional or bigger match they often don't understand many of the rules and nobody likes to be the rule police to new shooters, potentially ruining their trip. I know many of us have been corrected at a match or had to correct someone because they didn't know the rules and often times it's no fun for either party. Then there's the cases where new shooters don't get corrected so they never know any better.
For me, as a match director, I try to help by sending this to my 300+ email group especially because there's some major changes just like last year. I did that last night and told everyone that while our local hit and giggle match (to quote a friend) doesn't force people to follow every rule as we have lots of disciplines shooting at once, it's important they know the rules for when they decide to shoot a real match or in decisions surrounding gear.
HOWEVER.....that's not reality in many cases
I think the big thing for me is how do we get these rules to the people who need them. Not the day-in day-out competitors who track this stuff, but the people at club matches where they just have fun with 'mostly F Class'. It matters because when one or more of those club shooters want to shoot a state, regional or bigger match they often don't understand many of the rules and nobody likes to be the rule police to new shooters, potentially ruining their trip. I know many of us have been corrected at a match or had to correct someone because they didn't know the rules and often times it's no fun for either party. Then there's the cases where new shooters don't get corrected so they never know any better.
For me, as a match director, I try to help by sending this to my 300+ email group especially because there's some major changes just like last year. I did that last night and told everyone that while our local hit and giggle match (to quote a friend) doesn't force people to follow every rule as we have lots of disciplines shooting at once, it's important they know the rules for when they decide to shoot a real match or in decisions surrounding gear.
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
No one mentioned any thing about the "Free Recoil is not allowed."
Edit: I went back to make sure I read what I read. Then Ted posted it too..
Edit: I went back to make sure I read what I read. Then Ted posted it too..
B Nettesheim
Gold $$ Contributor
No more free recoiling for the open guys… this is gonna be bigger than Carpet Gate
As an MD looking through this Rule 3.1.A.3 and 3.1.b.2 clearly are stating that for both FO and T/R the rifle must be fired from the shoulder, ie in the shoulder. I think this is one of the instances the opening paragraph of this is not bench rest relates to. However, THIS IS NOT new In the HP rule book (Pre F-Class rule book so 2023 and before) it also stated the rifle must be in the shoulder. Rule 5.3 governs all positions for all rifles. Also that same language was present in F-Open and F-T/R rules for that also. I think people are just noticing it now. I think the opening paragraph is causing people to get bent out of shape that there are new rules in there. But, from what I looked at they just pulled out stuff from the old rule book and put only the rules that apply to f-class in its own book.
The rules committee I think is saying we are getting out of hand here on some of the stuff that is going on. I've seen people with hovering cheeks over stocks and the rifle yes eventually hits the shoulder but it recoils quite a bit before it stops. I think the committee is saying that is benchrest which F-Class was never intended to be but has drifted towards in an effort to shoot higher scores. But what I'm describing never was and never should have been allowed per NRA Rules but was being allowed. I think they are also clearly saying, which is good, that just because it is done this way in international shooting, we are going to use our rules and are not going to allow international to dictate. This is like US rules for Palma vs. ICFRA, and even US Fullbore vs. ICFRA where there are differences.
Now as far as enforcement it would be like enforcing rule 5.6 and the prone position. Have seen officials when NRA was at Camp Perry go up to shooters (including me) during the string and tell people their forearm was on the ground or their pistol grip was on the ground and that it was artificial support, its almost impossible to tell as you have clothing between forearm and ground but still they enforce it. Have seen officials have conversations with shooters during their string about this and some shooters getting into arguments. One of my good friends asked an official do you have a gauge to measure this? If not then I'm not changing anything and you are harassing me, and he went back to shooting. For this it may be easier (I don't know) because you can see if the butt plate is in the shoulder. They quit letting AR shooters place the butt plate on top of their shoulder in offhand a couple years back and said it has to be in the shoulder. It will be a subjective enforced rule but it is a rule, if you are trying to skirt the rule you may be called on it at some time. However in talking with an official about a situation we had last year 1st offense is never a death sentence, he said we're told to give 2 warnings before we DQ, 3 strikes your out.
As far as the cover its trivial but yes that is laziness, but its the NRA probably didn't have the money to redesign the art work because it was going to other people (read the trial transcripts its mind boggling). Heck you don't even see M1As on the line much anymore let alone people shooting irons.
The rules committee I think is saying we are getting out of hand here on some of the stuff that is going on. I've seen people with hovering cheeks over stocks and the rifle yes eventually hits the shoulder but it recoils quite a bit before it stops. I think the committee is saying that is benchrest which F-Class was never intended to be but has drifted towards in an effort to shoot higher scores. But what I'm describing never was and never should have been allowed per NRA Rules but was being allowed. I think they are also clearly saying, which is good, that just because it is done this way in international shooting, we are going to use our rules and are not going to allow international to dictate. This is like US rules for Palma vs. ICFRA, and even US Fullbore vs. ICFRA where there are differences.
Now as far as enforcement it would be like enforcing rule 5.6 and the prone position. Have seen officials when NRA was at Camp Perry go up to shooters (including me) during the string and tell people their forearm was on the ground or their pistol grip was on the ground and that it was artificial support, its almost impossible to tell as you have clothing between forearm and ground but still they enforce it. Have seen officials have conversations with shooters during their string about this and some shooters getting into arguments. One of my good friends asked an official do you have a gauge to measure this? If not then I'm not changing anything and you are harassing me, and he went back to shooting. For this it may be easier (I don't know) because you can see if the butt plate is in the shoulder. They quit letting AR shooters place the butt plate on top of their shoulder in offhand a couple years back and said it has to be in the shoulder. It will be a subjective enforced rule but it is a rule, if you are trying to skirt the rule you may be called on it at some time. However in talking with an official about a situation we had last year 1st offense is never a death sentence, he said we're told to give 2 warnings before we DQ, 3 strikes your out.
As far as the cover its trivial but yes that is laziness, but its the NRA probably didn't have the money to redesign the art work because it was going to other people (read the trial transcripts its mind boggling). Heck you don't even see M1As on the line much anymore let alone people shooting irons.
The HP committee is/was formed by shooters of all the disciplines who got together. Believe Earl Liebetrau was or was at one time one of the F-Class rep on the old committee, but the members are people who shoot F-class. Last year or at some time they decided to remove F-Class from the committee and form its own committee hence the new rule book. However you never know who is on the committee unless they come right out and say and the last several years the chairman has kept that secret. Dennis WIlling was way more open about how stuff worked and would let you know who was on the committee. Also you never know what is discussed, what their rationales are, etc. Only time you get information is if you know someone who is on it, kind of like a secret society.Someone enlighten me but who makes the rules within the NRA? I assume it is a committee of some sort. Is this committee composed of F class shooters? And if so, who are they? It's not about the rules, it's about control.
Downeast
Gold $$ Contributor
LOL well as far as who the members are and what they discuss, etc. Maybe that wasn't the best word not like they are the Skull and bones at Harvard. But the NRA won't tell you anymore and you only find out if you know former members as they know who is on. For example at the NRA Nationals Dennis would have at the table Himself, Walt (HP Chair) and then 3 or 4 committee members, he'd introduce them and say who the others were that weren't present. Now its just Walt and Aaron and the other members aren't introduced, some are in the crowd but you aren't told who is on the committee anymore."Secret Society"
Steve Jennings
Gold $$ Contributor
Here we go.
2024 will be the year that F-Class goes terminally WOKE.
2024 will be the year that F-Class goes terminally WOKE.
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Heman, the insight on the rule making process is very appreciated. Cheek welds haven’t been required, though. Many stocks in current use won’t permit a cheek weld because they are saddle shaped there on purpose.
This is kind of the concern some people have. What types of thoughts are percolating about equipment, and why, and does it truly have a bearing.
Half the guys in Open do not use the pistol grip of the rifle, they float a single finger or even slap the trigger, for example. This is considered perfectly legal but resembles no form of high power shooting outside Fclass.
In my opinion, once you don’t have to hold the rifle anymore, nothing else is all that material. Touching the butt stock is not the hard part of sling shooting, holding the rifle perfectly still as you fire it at 1,000 yards, is. I have a little experience as I rolled back the clock to the early1990’s and shot an M1A in the Texas State Championship last year with a 4x scope.
This is kind of the concern some people have. What types of thoughts are percolating about equipment, and why, and does it truly have a bearing.
Half the guys in Open do not use the pistol grip of the rifle, they float a single finger or even slap the trigger, for example. This is considered perfectly legal but resembles no form of high power shooting outside Fclass.
In my opinion, once you don’t have to hold the rifle anymore, nothing else is all that material. Touching the butt stock is not the hard part of sling shooting, holding the rifle perfectly still as you fire it at 1,000 yards, is. I have a little experience as I rolled back the clock to the early1990’s and shot an M1A in the Texas State Championship last year with a 4x scope.
Not really...why, way back in 2012 or so, I recall this same discussion occurring on this forum when a ban on "free recoil" was realized residing in the rules for F-Class competition and was being bantered around by forum members. It's nothing new for me. It's been the rule for quite some time!
(Could be the reason some of the forum members have drug out their "popcorn munching" comics!)
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Nailed it, Danny!!(Could be the reason some of the forum members have drug out their "popcorn munching" comics!)
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