SHOT Show and F Class?

[R&B]

I obviously couldn't do the whole show but I asked up and down a couple rows asking if anyone knew what F Class was. A lot people didn't want to be on camera but I'd say the responses were about on par with those I have on camera and I thought everyone would enjoy this quick video.

 

[Scalloper]

John, I watched your video of this yesterday. I was very surprised and disappointed that many in the industry had not even herd of F-Class. I live in Eastern Maine, probably as far as you could get from any formal match, yet my wife even knows F-Class is a formal shooting discipline.

 

[dgeesaman]

Where does the money come from?

Tons of new shooters spending tons of money on constantly “evolving” equipment.

My buddy who shoots PRS regularly says it’s common to see shooters show up with $8k rigs and expansive new reloading setups to go with it before they’ve shot even five matches. They show up and buy whatever the winners use. So in the near term those prize tables are well justified.

Apparently the PRS leaders are trying to grow it into a fully professional series where prizes are pickup trucks not scopes and sponsors come from outside the shooting industry. Sounds like crypto bro optimism to me - who is going to watch this (and justify bigger sponsors?). I’m guessing they have the BASS tour as their model or something. My buddy is famously understated and he called that vision “a little outlandish”, haha. But I’m not here to dump on a growing shooting sport, just having a touch of fun with it.

 

[bpm990d]

John, I watched your video of this yesterday. I was very surprised and disappointed that many in the industry had not even herd of F-Class. I live in Eastern Maine, probably as far as you could get from any formal match, yet my wife even knows F-Class is a formal shooting discipline.

There are several Mid-Range prone (600 yard) matches at Scarborough. Mostly F-Class shooters, only a few of us slingers around.

The also shoot a 600 yard practice on Thursday nights in Hampden during the summer.

 

[xswanted]

I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again.

Usually when I bring this up all the BR and F Class guys chime in with "I've never heard anyone say...."

BUT.....

Here we are.

FClass guys and BR shooter making fun of, belittling and shaming PRS.

I've shot a lot of F Class and a lot of PRS

One thing I never hear at PRS events, that I can't say about any F Class, Silhouette or other NRA type match, is the guys that shoot PRS don't tear down other shooting sports.

My local club loves to make fun of and talk down to PRS. I won't go there anymore for that reason, and its too bad as I enjoy shooting F Class and Silhouette.

I don't get it, I guess its "old man" mentality that anything new is scary and threatening.

 

[marchx]

I'd rather shoot with older guys than with PRS people. I don't care if an average Joe knows what F-class is. It does not bother me.

 

[Phys86]

How many know what a moose biathlon is? I've never participated, but I guarantee it's underappreciated

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I'd rather shoot with older guys than with PRS people. I don't care if an average Joe knows what F-class is. It does not bother me.

This post right here is such BS! Have you ever shot a PRS match? I shoot many different disciplines and calibers and guess what....they are all good folks to shoot with. You should have ended your judgmental statement with "Get off my lawn!"

 

[jelenko]

Hmmm. I wonder why? I mean not to pick what you said, but more money doesn't mean more popular (as in number of shooters).

I have almost zero PRS shooters as customers.

But they do love to spend that money. Fo sho.

The big prize money is provided by the sponsors. Sponsors are there because there LOTS of competitors and hence the sponsors get lots of visibility.

 

[jelenko]

How do you draw that level of vendor support to load up all those tables?

LOTS of competitors.

 

[jelenko]

For me a key difference between PRS and, say, cross the course, is the time spent shooting vs waiting.

My understanding is in PRS there's one shooter on the range at a time. Everyone else is waiting.

That said, the PRS course of fire is much more 'practical'. There's very few real life events where people engage targets in a heavy coat, sling and shooting glove.

 

[6Creed73]

This post right here is such BS! Have you ever shot a PRS match? I shoot many different disciplines and calibers and guess what....they are all good folks to shoot with. You should have ended your judgmental statement with "Get off my lawn!"

Yep, some of the best people I've come across in shooting sports was when I was shooting PRS. I respect all disciplines in shooting sports...certainly not going dismiss another discipline simply because I don't shoot it.

 

[dgeesaman]

For me a key difference between PRS and, say, cross the course, is the time spent shooting vs waiting.

My understanding is in PRS there's one shooter on the range at a time. Everyone else is waiting.

That said, the PRS course of fire is much more 'practical'. There's very few real life events where people engage targets in a heavy coat, sling and shooting glove.

The event I attended had several lanes going at once, so while there was only one shooter active on each lane, you had a good balance of time spent waiting, observing, and time shooting.

I would probably attend some PRS matches but the registrations fill up really fast (we’re talking a couple minutes) and there arent other facilities and clubs to grow it much further here. They do a beginners match that does well. I just happened to get caught up in different competitive shooting events instead of PRS but a part of me wants to try it again.

David

 

[jelenko]

The event I attended had several lanes going at once, so while there was only one shooter active on each lane, you had a good balance of time spent waiting and time shooting.

I would probably attend some PRS matches but the registrations fill up really fast (we’re talking a couple minutes) and there arent other facilities and clubs to grow it much further here. They do a beginners match that does well. I just happened to get caught up in different competitive shooting events instead of PRS but a part of me wants to try it again.

David

If there were matches anywhere close to me I'd like to try them also. If nothing else, it would mean I had to build a new rifle.

 

[Fclassfool]

Back before PRS we shot practical marksman pretty much the same thing and my all time favorite back then. The Allegheny Sniper Challenge. I'd be laid up a week if I still shot those type matches

 

[jthor]

I don’t have experience with FClass folks talking crap about PRS or other disciplines other than here since I don’t shoot it. However I do have experience with Highpower/Service Rifle shooters constantly complaining about FClass (belly benchrest as they call it) and PRS. Why, I have no clue. I don’t hear PRS folks talking crap about other sports other than the meme accounts and to be fair, those accounts roast everyone. Lol I shoot Service Rifle on the team as a means to be on the Department of the Air Force Team, not cause I really am passionate about it. I love PRS. At some point PRS will be a way to be on the team because Service Rifle is on borrowed time if the community does not fix the participation issue. I’m the only member on any DAF team that has gone to the PRS Finale. By comparison SR is boring and not practical compared to PRS, not saying PRS is 100% practical.
Here’s what I will say again:

There is value in shooting multiple sports and learning from others in different sports.

FClass: While I don’t shoot it taught me how to reload. I don’t do things like weight primers, but ALOT of my reloading process comes from learning from FClass shooters. I find value in eliminating noise and have a well shooting rifle so I can train well and then perform well.

Service Rifle:
Heavy on fundamentals:
- breathing
- Natural Point of Aim
- Trigger Control
- Rejecting bad shots and resetting
- wind reading
- shot calling
These are all things SR has helped with. Rejecting bad shots is a huge one. While in SR it might be a 10-20 second reset for off hand shooting, the process only takes one or 2 seconds of extra time in PRS, but still exists.

PRS:
- Target acquisition
- mental focus and going in and out of a flow state
- Adaptability both with stage props and conditions on the clock
- multiple ways of handing the rifle
- weak side practicing
- correcting off calls quickly with intent
- processing misses on the clock without going into fight or flight
- wind reading
- lots of good friends

While PRS rifles aren’t 100% practical a lot of the skills learned translate to the field really well with a well built hunting rifle and to add actual sniper rifles aren’t all that light either. My PRS rigs also make good varmint guns too.

So I said all that to say again, there is value in knowing more than one discipline even if you don’t shoot it. We have a lot of value together in the shooting community, not segregated and degrading each other.

 

[Average joe]

One thing to think about in the disparity in attendance and sponsorship of prs and other disciplines is prs has a heavy social-media presence…..
Social media seems to drive a lot of things in our society…. As a match director, when I ask for sponsorships, one thing they ask is “what social media recognition will we receive “.

 

[ronsatspokane]

To put this in perspective: if you combine PRS, F Class, Benchrest and Biathlon into one group, the numbers still pale in comparison to shooting sports like Sporting Clays, Trap and Skeet. The Sporting Clays nationals attracted 2200 individuals. Trap and Skeet are truly international and the numbers are staggering. F Class Nationals or Berger Southwest Nationals are like 400 people. Granted, they cut it off at that number but it is still relatively small. Might make it to 500 if they left it open.

I started shooting Sporting Clays a couple of years back for fun. I don't compete. I just don't have the time with shooting F Class and getting out fishing. But I may in the future. Kind of like PRS, I may in the future. We will see.

For me F Class is a zen sport. PRS is exercise, something I need more of but being a lazy bastard, something I avoid more than I should. Sporting Clays falls right in the middle. A good walk with a gun engaging targets coming and going in all different kinds of directions and exhibiting all different kinds of behaviors. Of course top shooters often run everything from golf carts to RZR's and don't get a good walk in. Serious fun though.

 

[DR_2297]

Perhaps shooting sports organizations should do booths at shot show.

Put a nice F-Class booth with a couple of TVs playing F-Class video and still image highlights. Add in a few F-Class Rigs with all the trimmings on display. A display of most used cartridges, some of the targets, and so on. Maybe they can talk the show promotors into a discount for the space. It only helps the whole industry. People buying equipment, fuels the industry. Promotors can write it off if your org is a non-profit.

Benefit: Exposure of F-Class to potential recruits and exposure to the industry for possible sponsorships. There would have to be a budget set aside by the national org.

Pretty sure the CMP was there…

 

[Nvcnvc]

I don’t have experience with FClass folks talking crap about PRS or other disciplines other than here since I don’t shoot it. However I do have experience with Highpower/Service Rifle shooters constantly complaining about FClass (belly benchrest as they call it) and PRS. Why, I have no clue. I don’t hear PRS folks talking crap about other sports other than the meme accounts and to be fair, those accounts roast everyone. Lol I shoot Service Rifle on the team as a means to be on the Department of the Air Force Team, not cause I really am passionate about it. I love PRS. At some point PRS will be a way to be on the team because Service Rifle is on borrowed time if the community does not fix the participation issue. I’m the only member on any DAF team that has gone to the PRS Finale. By comparison SR is boring and not practical compared to PRS, not saying PRS is 100% practical.
Here’s what I will say again:

There is value in shooting multiple sports and learning from others in different sports.

FClass: While I don’t shoot it taught me how to reload. I don’t do things like weight primers, but ALOT of my reloading process comes from learning from FClass shooters. I find value in eliminating noise and have a well shooting rifle so I can train well and then perform well.

Service Rifle:
Heavy on fundamentals:
- breathing
- Natural Point of Aim
- Trigger Control
- Rejecting bad shots and resetting
- wind reading
- shot calling
These are all things SR has helped with. Rejecting bad shots is a huge one. While in SR it might be a 10-20 second reset for off hand shooting, the process only takes one or 2 seconds of extra time in PRS, but still exists.

PRS:
- Target acquisition
- mental focus and going in and out of a flow state
- Adaptability both with stage props and conditions on the clock
- multiple ways of handing the rifle
- weak side practicing
- correcting off calls quickly with intent
- processing misses on the clock without going into fight or flight
- wind reading
- lots of good friends

While PRS rifles aren’t 100% practical a lot of the skills learned translate to the field really well with a well built hunting rifle and to add actual sniper rifles aren’t all that light either. My PRS rigs also make good varmint guns too.

So I said all that to say again, there is value in knowing more than one discipline even if you don’t shoot it. We have a lot of value together in the shooting community, not segregated and degrading each other.

That is a very well reasoned position. I wholeheartedly agree. Each discipline has its strengths and all would benefit from helping each other. I appreciate F class more because, it has taught me a lot about perfecting my ammo. there is something about producing a tiny group at 1000 yards. To me that is the ultimate challenge. I love the sound of banging steel at a distance also, and I admire the energy needed for PRS, but I chose fclass because it suits my character more,