SHOT Show and F Class?

[Dimner]

I did a great deal of CMP shooting years ago, (lost my love for organized shooting since then) but I could not disagree more about the AR15. I've carried the M2 Carbine in M1A1 configuration, the M16, M14 as well as Remington and Winchester bolt rifles. Along with the standard 1911 pistol.

I understand you like older rifles, so do I, however, the AR15 platform (WITHIN ITS LIMITS) in a well-made configuration is as fine a rifle a family man could want. Those limits are well within the needs of family and defense.

It can be downright reasonably priced, (of course the sky's the limit) it's chambered in reasonable cartridges, 223, 5.45 x 45, 22 ARC, 6MM ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC to mention a few. It's durable, easy to maintain, mine in 5.56 x 45 and 6MM ARC are varmint grade accurate. I have ZERO PROBLEM trusting my life to either of my AR 15's.

Oh I totally agree.

I have always been an old rifle lover. When I, begrudgingly, started the CMP format with the AR15, that's when I learned how dang ergonomic and practical the AR15 format is. After I found that out, I built two more .

But they do not get alot of use. Old lever guns, mausers, 1903's, and garands is where my heart is at.

 

[Texas Solo]

Id like to see Shooting USA and John Scouten do a show on F Class Nationals or other big match to get some air time.

The did ONE F class show about 5 years ago. It was really lame, not their usual quality. Short episode focused on one rookie and how he was doing.

Maybe if they did a good episode at the SWN.....

All they do now is PRS or USPSA. I quit watching. Same stuff every week.

 

[David Milisock]

Oh I totally agree.

I have always been an old rifle lover. When I, begrudgingly, started the CMP format with the AR15, that's when I learned how dang ergonomic and practical the AR15 format is. After I found that out, I built two more .

But they do not get alot of use. Old lever guns, mausers, 1903's, and garands is where my heart is at.

I tinker w8th old WWI & WWII bolt rifles and M1 Carbines, that's what I shoot at the range the most. My AR's are real working rifles.

 

[Turkeytider]

That's odd. I figure you have a decent sized customer base from snipers hide?

I thought snipers hide was all about PRS. Is there some other competition they prefer over there? I'm probably jaded and lumped all that running from station to station with audio industry tripods as shooting rests as PRS.

I'll throw shade right at my own self. I don't really get the draw to almost any of the shooting competition formats. They are either far too niche, equipment races, or just plain goofy (running to and fro dumping your shotgun or AR in a plastic barrel). Man, I'm becoming a total curmudgeon. I'm probably secretly envious of how much fun people have at those events

Yeah, surprised. I`d figure that 90-95% of the guys on SH would be high end ( AKA expensive ) precision shooters, many of whom are competitors. Certainly the tone and apparent temperament of some ( not all ) of the posters would lead one to think that, IMO. I would hazard a guess that many of them build their rifles themselves out of components that 95% of the " average Joe " shooter has never even heard of!

 

[DR1586]

Shows how clueless people in the shooting industry are.
If it's not related to an AR or PRS

People in the shooting sports industry are not clueless. Ive spent the better part of the last 20 years working in the industry and have been fortunate to call it my life’s work. I know some of the folks in that video personally and they are very smart business people, many of whose make and sell products that simply not utilized in F-Class or maybe any other competitive shooting ventures. The fact of the matter is that F-Class is relatively small in comparison to the population that drives the shooting industry. PRS is also relatively small and is not the sole driving force in business decisions, product lines, sales training, etc. So to make a blanket statement that people in our industry are clueless is simply inaccurate.

If you look at the sample of vendors he spoke to, you’ll see that most are simply not in the precision, long range, market. And that’s great, because the industry needs consumers of all interests. Long gone are the days where Bullseye, smallbore, High-power, short range Benchreat, and Silhouette are the driving force in American consumer behavior. Sure, advancements in equipment or technology comes from competitive shooting, to include F-Class and PRS. But you simply cannot expect every vendor to be an expert in all things shooting sports. You won’t find it in any industry, period.

What the folks in our industry ARE is willing to talk to shooters, just as they did with John at SHOT. They are willing to learn and see where there may be avenues to grow their business IF it makes sense. So good on John for trying to spread the message and engage with the industry. If you look, PRS has done an outstanding job of engaging with the industry, which is why you see a lot of that right now. Cowboy action was that way, so was USPSA, so was 3-Gun. Youth trap and clays has done a great job with it in recent years as they’ve grown. All in all, F-Class has done an OK job and folks like John are doing good things for the sport.

John, I’m sorry if my response takes anything away from what you are doing. Keep up the great work and spread the word about any and all shooting sports.

Sincerely,

John Teachey

 

[F Class John]

If you look at the sample of vendors he spoke to, you’ll see that most are simply not in the precision, long range, market. And that’s great, because the industry needs consumers of all interests. Long gone are the days where Bullseye, smallbore, High-power, short range Benchreat, and Silhouette are the driving force in American consumer behavior. Sure, advancements in equipment or technology comes from competitive shooting, to include F-Class and PRS. But you simply cannot expect every vendor to be an expert in all things shooting sports. You won’t find it in any industry, period.
[...]
John, I’m sorry if my response takes anything away from what you are doing. Keep up the great work and spread the word about any and all shooting sports.

I appreciate what you said and I totally agree, it's definitely not the barometer to measure F Class by, but instead it's just an interesting look from the perspective of those who were asked (and I definitely was happy to talk to those who wanted to learn about it). For those wondering, it wasn't intended to be click bait or anything like that, it's just the way it went that day and thought it would be interesting to share. I got a wild hair that particular morning and thought it would be interesting as I was waiting for Erik and had some time to kill. What you see in the video are the first people I ran into that were willing to be on camera in the first couple rows I planned on walking. But we're talking a few dozen questioned out of hundreds and hundreds of booths covering five convention center rooms. In retrospect I should've asked about other disciplines like PRS, 3 gun, speed gun, etc. but you know what they say about hindsight.

 

[Fire Dog]

If F Class shooting {I'm one} and PRS are such a minor bit of the shooting world overall,
WHERE are all the target/long range bullets?? Hello Berger, are you listening?
Is the production of these UN-Obtainum projectiles, think .223, 6mm, 6.5, 7mm & .30 just limited or is the production just being bought up in vast quantities by a handful?
Leaving the rest of us that just need 500 for the year to be able to compete in local competition out in the cold. Not to mention primers and powder.... I heard someone recently bragging that they had 50K primers, and 150 lbs of powder stashed away!
I am fortunate to be able to shoot every Saturday in F Open {an hour and 20 minute drive} on a range that runs 300mtrs to 1'000yds but the lack of ranges that offer those sort of distances is a real problem to growing F Class.
Particularly in the USA, at least in Az. where I have only a 200 yd range with in a reasonable distance of where I locate when back for a visit to Tucson. To get to a 1'000 yd range it is 30 miles West of Tucson, nearly a 2 hr drive for me and they do not shoot every week, only a few sessions per month.
Ben Avery in Phoenix is an example of what I would love to see copied in more places.
Sierra Vista range {which for me would be closer if it had distance greater than the closest one at the Pima County show grounds} East of the city was talking about expanding but still only offer 200yd paper and out to 400yds for steel... Often closed due to volunteer staffing shortages...