Consistant seating depth...

[Evan]

Gluing (locktight) a flat washer in the base of the seater will make the die reference off of the shoulder istead of the base. This will eliminate any error in your shoulder to base dimension of your brass.
View attachment 1518139

Exactly what I do. The die rests on the shoulders instead of the base and you get amazing consistency of bullet ogive to shoulder.

 

[Mulligan]

Gluing (locktight) a flat washer in the base of the seater will make the die reference off of the shoulder istead of the base. This will eliminate any error in your shoulder to base dimension of your brass.
View attachment 1518139

I like the way you think

Nice work

CW

 

[20PPC]

I checked the seater stem last night when I got home from work, inspecting it with a magnifying glass and good light.
There were clearly no cracks on the stem, I then turned it over and put a bullet in the stem pressing down on it and still no seperations.
Next thought is to try some other brands of bullets, I have some Bibs to try and some Barts.

 

[Bc'z]

I checked the seater stem last night when I got home from work, inspecting it with a magnifying glass and good light.
There were clearly no cracks on the stem, I then turned it over and put a bullet in the stem pressing down on it and still no seperations.
Next thought is to try some other brands of bullets, I have some Bibs to try and some Barts.

Is the stem making good contact all the way around and not bottoming out

 

[20PPC]

Is the stem making good contact all the way around and not bottoming out

@Bc'z yes after having it drilled out and polished it is making perfect contact.
I'm about ready to screw my 30 BR barrel back on the action and just shoot score.

 

[6Creed73]

I checked the seater stem last night when I got home from work, inspecting it with a magnifying glass and good light.
There were clearly no cracks on the stem, I then turned it over and put a bullet in the stem pressing down on it and still no seperations.
Next thought is to try some other brands of bullets, I have some Bibs to try and some Barts.

Definitely interested in what you find out. I'd be shocked if the issue is with the Bergers, but anything is possible. I've used the 105 Hybrids for awhile and they are very consistent in my experience. Keep us in the know!

 

[Mulligan]

I checked the seater stem last night when I got home from work, inspecting it with a magnifying glass and good light.
There were clearly no cracks on the stem, I then turned it over and put a bullet in the stem pressing down on it and still no seperations.
Next thought is to try some other brands of bullets, I have some Bibs to try and some Barts.

I had a similar issue several years ago. Inconsistent seating depths.......

After lots of consternation, it was caused from the seater stem and cap not being at a right angle.
So the results were, the more pressure I applied to the arbor press handle, the deeper the bullet went into the case. The seater stem would flex under pressure, due to the misalignment with the cap.

Just something to check.
CW

 

[Ccrider]

Sounds like you have a die problem. I think Tony Boyer in his book offered a simple solution to fix a die problem.

Something like chunk it in the nearest river and buy a new die.

 

[Bill Norris]

Bill - Do the exceptions come from certain manufacturers?

Not exclusively. I have seen the ogive sitting further back and/or forward on different brands down thru the years. Custom bullets from Bart or Randy will demonstrate more uniformity. Recently a friend purchased some Tubb DTACs 115 gr. and I was surprised at the uniformity of those when seating.

 

[marine52]

Gluing (locktight) a flat washer in the base of the seater will make the die reference off of the shoulder istead of the base. This will eliminate any error in your shoulder to base dimension of your brass.
View attachment 1518139

This is very interesting. I always thought that a seater that indexed off the shoulder would be optimal. Nice!

I just wonder how much seating pressure it takes to move the shoulder back since you have now effectively transformed the Wilson seater to a shoulder bump die once the bullet is fully seated.

I’m going to do some tests on my arbor.

 

[6Creed73]

I just wonder how much seating pressure it takes to move the shoulder back since you have now effectively transformed the Wilson seater to a shoulder bump die once the bullet is fully seated.

I’m going to do some tests on my arbor.

I was wondering about this myself. I've experienced shift in the shoulder from simply using an expander ball with sizing brass...which is why I no longer use them.

With that said, the shoulder is stronger going the other direction...I'd be interested to see if the seater die pushes on the shoulder enough to move it.

 

[rebs]

will the N&K ar4bor press and a Wilson inline seater fix the problem with inconsistent seating depth ?

 

[Ccrider]

Any arbor press and a good die will seat consistently if the bras is otherwise consistent. I have never had a .01 variance and can’t imagine how to replicate that type of variance.

 

[marine52]

This is very interesting. I always thought that a seater that indexed off the shoulder would be optimal. Nice!

I just wonder how much seating pressure it takes to move the shoulder back since you have now effectively transformed the Wilson seater to a shoulder bump die once the bullet is fully seated.

I’m going to do some tests on my arbor.

Follow-up. I did some quick tests on my Arbor press to see if the @Olde Man washer trick had an impact on shoulder. My thought is that once the bullet Is fully seated there is a split-second pressure spike as the arber die force is transferred to the fixed die body. this is not a scientific test since I only used one case.

case : 308 win LRP, once fired and then annealed on AMP. FL sized and shoulder set back 0.001.

I set up the die base with flat washer glued in as described by @Olde Man.

I reset my caliper to zero on current shoulder position:


APPLIED 30 LBS PRESSURE:



NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER:



I tried it again at 50 and 82 lbs and still no impact on shoulder. I switched to the K&M pressure gauge (not supposed to go over 100 lbs with the hydro gauge) and tried it at 110 and 125 lbs. STILL NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER!!



Finally, I got out my mallet and gave the die 5 sharp whacks with same base setup using washer. This produced a bit over 1k bump on shoulder:



Bottom line for this crude test: the @Olde Man washer trick seems to have no impact on case shoulder for reasonable arbor press force up to 125 lbs. This was for a 308 win case and may not apply to smaller cases like 6mm

 

[6Creed73]

Follow-up. I did some quick tests on my Arber press to see if the @Olde Man washer trick had an impact on shoulder. My thought is that once the bullet Is fully seated there is a split-second pressure spike as the arber die force is transferred to the fixed die body. this is not a scientific test since I only used one case.

case : 308 win LRP, once fired and then annealed on AMP. FL sized and shoulder set back 0.001.

I set up the die base with flat washer glued in as described by @Olde Man.

I reset my caliper to zero on current shoulder position:

View attachment 1518552
APPLIED 30 LBS PRESSURE:

View attachment 1518553

NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER:

View attachment 1518569

I tried it again at 50 and 82 lbs and still no impact on shoulder. I switched to the K&M pressure gauge (not supposed to go over 100 lbs with the hydro gauge) and tried it at 110 and 125 lbs. STILL NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER!!

View attachment 1518570

Finally, I got out my mallet and gave the die 5 sharp whacks with same base setup using washer. This produced a bit over 1k bump on shoulder:

View attachment 1518571

Bottom line for this crude test: the @Olde Man washer trick seems to have no impact on case shoulder for reasonable arber press force up to 125 lbs. This was for a 308 win case and may not apply to smaller cases like 6mm

Good info. Thanks for testing this.

 

[Olde Man]

Follow-up. I did some quick tests on my Arber press to see if the @Olde Man washer trick had an impact on shoulder. My thought is that once the bullet Is fully seated there is a split-second pressure spike as the arber die force is transferred to the fixed die body. this is not a scientific test since I only used one case.

case : 308 win LRP, once fired and then annealed on AMP. FL sized and shoulder set back 0.001.

I set up the die base with flat washer glued in as described by @Olde Man.

I reset my caliper to zero on current shoulder position:

View attachment 1518552
APPLIED 30 LBS PRESSURE:

View attachment 1518553

NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER:

View attachment 1518569

I tried it again at 50 and 82 lbs and still no impact on shoulder. I switched to the K&M pressure gauge (not supposed to go over 100 lbs with the hydro gauge) and tried it at 110 and 125 lbs. STILL NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER!!

View attachment 1518570

Finally, I got out my mallet and gave the die 5 sharp whacks with same base setup using washer. This produced a bit over 1k bump on shoulder:

View attachment 1518571

Bottom line for this crude test: the @Olde Man washer trick seems to have no impact on case shoulder for reasonable arber press force up to 125 lbs. This was for a 308 win case and may not apply to smaller cases like 6mm

I use the K&M arbor press with the force gauge and can see and feel when the bullet is seated. Thanks for taking the time to put this info out there. I previously did the same test to100lbs and got the same results

 

[JFrank]

If that’s the case then why would it make any difference whether the washer is in place or not, bullet gets seated the same ?

 

[Mulligan]

If that’s the case then why would it make any difference whether the washer is in place or not, bullet gets seated the same ?

One is shoulder to ojive the other base to ojive

Read @Evan post above about his experience
CW

 

[Mulligan]

Follow-up. I did some quick tests on my Arber press to see if the @Olde Man washer trick had an impact on shoulder. My thought is that once the bullet Is fully seated there is a split-second pressure spike as the arber die force is transferred to the fixed die body. this is not a scientific test since I only used one case.

case : 308 win LRP, once fired and then annealed on AMP. FL sized and shoulder set back 0.001.

I set up the die base with flat washer glued in as described by @Olde Man.

I reset my caliper to zero on current shoulder position:

View attachment 1518552
APPLIED 30 LBS PRESSURE:

View attachment 1518553

NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER:

View attachment 1518569

I tried it again at 50 and 82 lbs and still no impact on shoulder. I switched to the K&M pressure gauge (not supposed to go over 100 lbs with the hydro gauge) and tried it at 110 and 125 lbs. STILL NO IMPACT ON SHOULDER!!

View attachment 1518570

Finally, I got out my mallet and gave the die 5 sharp whacks with same base setup using washer. This produced a bit over 1k bump on shoulder:

View attachment 1518571

Bottom line for this crude test: the @Olde Man washer trick seems to have no impact on case shoulder for reasonable arber press force up to 125 lbs. This was for a 308 win case and may not apply to smaller cases like 6mm

You ROCK!
CW

 

[JFrank]

One is shoulder to ojive the other base to ojive

Read @Evan post above about his experience
CW

I believe I did, but maybe I just don’t get how the shoulder gets changed with out the washer .