Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[fn1889m]

@fn1889m, all those subsidies were for infrastructure and to develop the country and economy. Subsidizing charging networks qualifies, and I can accept that within limits (not however to hundreds of $billions in a decade!)…. But there's never been a massive subsidy for a particular design of a consumer product such as motor vehicles.
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With all respect, I think that is a distinction without a difference. We subsidized roads for motor vehicles, airports for airplanes, railroad tracks for trains. Each of those are a particular design. Now that these legacy industries have to compete with a start up guy who makes electric cars when everyone laughed at him, suddenly subsidies bad? Very few industries in America have paid their own way without help. Almost every industry received some kind of start up help. The sale of tractors is subsidized by government loans to farmers.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-programs/index
I am neither for nor against subsidies as such. Each one should be evaluated based upon benefit versus cost. I personally think we should give electric vehicles a foot up. But the truth is, it’s probably not going to be necessary in the long run. (Except as we compete with other countries that do subsidize their industries.) They are in general a pretty good product that can compete head on with ICE vehicles overtime. But compared to the Enormous amount of tax dollars paid to subsidize other industries, directly and indirectly, electric vehicles and charging networks don’t even tip the scale.

 

[fn1889m]

... Many lined the elites pockets and have contributed to our nation's debt of 34 trillion dollars. The United States is subsidizing it's existence and wealth of the few by printing money. By the way, your portion of this debt is roughly $100K.

That is my share on a per capita basis. But if it’s based upon income or wealth, my proportionate share is probably about $10. Many corporations probably have the lions share, based upon proportionate income or wealth.

A bank subsidizes a new business with a loan. What happens if that business can't make enough money to support it self and pay the loan back?

Many loans are guaranteed by the federal government. Many agricultural loans, small business administration loans, and VA loans are backed by US government guarantees so investors lose little if the loans are not paid by the borrower. If the bank loans money to a farmer on a federally guaranteed loan, the bank has zero risk if the loan is not paid back. So it is really the government subsidizing risky loans, not banks.

Just for fun, will you go down to your Toyota and Ford dealers and ask to drive a fully electric vehicle? I’m assuming you don’t own one. But it would be interesting to see what you thought after driving a typical EV.

 

[rr2030]

Today I was out driving, got off the freeway came to the street I needed to turn right onto. Sitting at the light waiting for the opportunity to slip into the traffic as a dozen or more vehicles passed by. I didn't have to wait long, a 100 yard gap in the heavy traffic caused by a Tesla, at a complete stop, with the driver staring at something in their vehicle provided more than the space I needed to easily slip into the traffic flow. looking in my rear view mirror I can see it was another several seconds before the Tesla began to move.

Thank you (insert pronoun here) Tesla driver !

 

[fn1889m]

The American automobile industry is competing on an international scale. The fact that jobs have fled to other countries is a sign that we have lost a few rounds in this fight. Other countries are subsidizing and supporting electric vehicle manufacturing. It is important for the US to support family wage jobs for “blue-collar“ workers. The automobile industry is very good at providing well paying jobs. A lot of our political problems come from the loss of jobs for middle-class Americans. Supporting a strong electric vehicle industry is good for America, good for workers. Electric cars are not going away. It would be a shame to lose these jobs to other countries. The electric vehicle industry is probably going to be the core of automobile manufacturing in a few years. Supporting it is one of the smart things the current administration has tried to do. It would be a shame to lose these jobs to Japan, China and Europe as the EV market grows. (Specifically, I tried 3 times to buy a Ford F150 “Pro“ Lightning EV but was told that one would not be available to me for at least a year, so I bought a Toyota instead.)

 

[Eagle Six]

Why not cut everyone a break and subsidize EV so they can sell for $9,999.00 and come with free install of an adequate charger for the new owner. Lots of demand in a hurry, lots of jobs, lots of happy people. It's just national debt! And then the control of everyone comes much quicker. Happy government, happy people, Win, Win, Win for all the planet.

 

[fn1889m]

Why not cut everyone a break and subsidize EV so they can sell for $9,999.00 and come with free install of an adequate charger for the new owner. Lots of demand in a hurry, lots of jobs, lots of happy people. It's just national debt! And then the control of everyone comes much quicker. Happy government, happy people, Win, Win, Win for all the planet.

I assume this is sarcasm. Seriously, I’m not suggesting that electric vehicles even have support equivalent to tractor sales. (I could probably get a government guaranteed loan to buy a tractor.) But political fighting is keeping the United States from having a coherent national policy about preserving our industrial base. Both political parties should be able to agree on a workable level of encouragement and support for this new growing industry so 10 years from now we are a leading manufacturer of electric vehicles. The fact that this is subject to commonly believed false narratives shows how dysfunctional our government is at the moment. Supporting our industries is patriotic and smart. It should be a non-partisan political objective.

 

[Eagle Six]

I'm not against just EV subsidies I'm against all subsidies. I'm not against people voluntarily sending their hard earned money to Teslas, it's their money they can subsidize what they like as long as it doesn't adversely effect me and mine. As for the politics and parties agreeing, good luck with that. I'm not against anyone having an opinion, although I may be against what their opinion is.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

This thread just keeps proving how much more brainwashed Americans become everyday.

 

[jds holler]

Rules of economics say that you will get more of whatever you subsidize. Just look how well it worked for un-wed mothers, welfare bums, and illegal aliens for instance. Trouble is, it also has created a bunch of folks who are very good at getting government subsidies. jd

 

[Kracken McGraw]

If you guys are going to support the electric car industry, you had better put nuclear energy on the front burner first.

 

[Dgd6mm]

If you guys are going to support the electric car industry, you had better put nuclear energy on the front burner first.

Because it's not going far without it.

 

[DogBuster]

Please tell me that’s not real.

It's real man.......Subaru caters to the lesbie crowd...

Their dog commercials are much funnier

 

[DogBuster]

Always a chuckle

 

[DogBuster]

Gotta luv Golden Retrievers

 

[Knotwild]

That is my share on a per capita basis. But if it’s based upon income or wealth, my proportionate share is probably about $10. Many corporations probably have the lions share, based upon proportionate income or wealth.

That's fine. How long will the US last printing money; especially with other nations dumping our IOU's?

Many loans are guaranteed by the federal government. Many agricultural loans, small business administration loans, and VA loans are backed by US government guarantees so investors lose little if the loans are not paid by the borrower. If the bank loans money to a farmer on a federally guaranteed loan, the bank has zero risk if the loan is not paid back. So it is really the government subsidizing risky loans, not banks.

I used to be in the ag business. I know what happens when you can't pay your debt - they sell you out. I don't care who guarantees the loan - if forfeited, poof the money is gone. The assets go on the chopping block. I've also seen many, many SBA and FHA loans abused. Remember 2008? That debt doesn't just magically disappear. Banks require collateral.

Just for fun, will you go down to your Toyota and Ford dealers and ask to drive a fully electric vehicle? I’m assuming you don’t own one. But it would be interesting to see what you thought after driving a typical EV.

They don't yet make an EV that can tow, haul 1500 lbs, or that is capable of existing used in a coastal (salty) environment. How do they do in the mud? In other words a decent pickup. I don't buy anything I can't work on myself, EV or ICE and I'm not interested in being an electrician. And I'm definitely not interested in sitting in a parking lot an hour or so to charge it up. I'm not interested in having an electrician come add amps to my house. I'm also not able (or crazy enough) to pay what a newer model vehicle costs, nor the high insurance, nor the high taxes on newer vehicles. I don't owe a dime on anything and God willing I aim to keep it that way.

As I said in an earlier post, people who can benefit from them should go ahead and dive in. I'm happy for them. I do not believe in the climate lies or the dire need for electric vehicles. And at this time they won't serve my needs.

When they start talking hydrogen my ears might perk up.
No offense intended, that's just the way it is at my address.

 

[Medic505]

100 pages and I've only been called rude once. I must be slipping.

 

[jackieschmidt]

If you guys are going to support the electric car industry, you had better put nuclear energy on the front burner first.

Like everything else, we are now depending on other Countries for the majority of our uranium needs.

Where our uranium comes from - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Sources of uranium, how and where uranium is produced in the United States, and source of U.S. uranium imports.

www.eia.gov

 

[Larry Koch]

Like everything else, we are now depending on other Countries for the majority of our uranium needs.

Where our uranium comes from - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Sources of uranium, how and where uranium is produced in the United States, and source of U.S. uranium imports.

www.eia.gov

I dont think there is enough battery making material on the planet to replace gas engines.

 

[Brians356]

I dont think there is enough battery making material on the planet to replace gas engines.

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[BobbyJ]

Been reading up on these and not sure what to believe ? I would rather hear it from an owner. Two sides to every story

Do not buy a 100 percent electric car. I have a Chevy Volt and its fine because its 100 percent electric and only uses the gasoline as a generator for the battery. It has good power all the time. My daughter has it in Florida and no longer charges it because they charge more for the electricity than the cost of gas where she lives. If she had a tesla she would be SOL. And not every place you live has charging stations.
Perfect electric car would be like the Volt with the battery size of the BOLT or Tesla. You need that gasoline generator though so you can run 100 percent on gas if needed. Don't say I did not warn you if you buy a tesla. The infrastructure is not ready for 100 percent electric car yet.