Goodbye Supertrickler?

[searcher]

If they thought they could WIN then a court decision could be granted with prejudice, netting a nice fee.
Ambulance chasers sometimes end up working for free.

Pivot drains/drops have been around for a while. I don't know nothing about patent law, but what leg does VISTA have to stand on?

Now, I'm not saying that this is what Vista is doing - but one can bring a lawsuit against someone for any imaginative thing. In this case, Vista knows the receiver of their suit is faced with a few options. Either pay their demands, negotiate a settlement, go through the legal process to show a judge the case should be (demurred) dropped as it lacks merit, or proceed to trial. In all of these scenarios - Vista, at the beginning of all of this, does not have to show any "proof" that they have done anything wrong. And that is a real problem with our legal system and can lead to much abuse. Not saying that is what is happening here - as I haven't a clue as to these technological similarities.

 

[Shinbone]

Lawyers will get sanctions against them for bringing frivolous claims. Meaning, if Vista has nothing, it won't do anything beyond writing the scary letter and spewing bluster. If Vista's claims do have some merit, then time to stop whining about how unfair life is and do a re-exam of their patent.

JMHO

 

[kiwijohn]

Would the "fee" to Vista only be on the units sold into the USA? Would such a law suit only be enforcable in the USA. Would it only apply to new sales?

 

[muleystalker]

If like me you feel vista outdoors is unfairly bullying a new startup. You can simply write them and express your feelings on the subject. If enough in the shooting community were to complain they would notice, especially if they started thinking this sort of stuff might cause more in lost revenue over coming years than they would gain by pursuing this. It wouldn't take that many people to simply quit purchasing from any of the vista outdoors brands to cause lost revenue exceeding anything they might get from ST. It's not like you're trying to appeal to legal folks, that's impossible. You need to appeal to the marketing folks, those are the ones with all the power, they can shut this down with a simple phone call and will if they think it will impact future sales.

Contact Us – Vista Outdoor

vistaoutdoor.com

2500 lost customers to Vista is nothing.

 

[Larry Koch]

PAC powder dispenser had a dual tube powder dispenser back in the 90’s.

 

[DocBII]

PAC powder dispenser had a dual tube powder dispenser back in the 90’s.

Larry,

I still have my original and an improved higher speed dispenser. Used it for many years to chase and set records at local matches.

DocBII

 

[Rocketvapor]

Did Pact drop dispensers from their product line?
I wonder .

 

[Bill Clifton]

Pivot drains/drops have been around for a while. I don't know nothing about patent law, but what leg does VISTA have to stand on?

Big companies like that have attorneys on retainer anyway so I'd say they just want to use what they are paying for and pick on some small guy that has something better than they do.

 

[Larry Koch]

Did Pact drop dispensers from their product line?
I wonder .

I had one combo digital scale and dispenser they talk to each other thru a tiny laser light.
The two tube dispensers one for high speed power drop and one for fine.

 

[xr650rRider]

RCBS first auto dispenser was made by Pact.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I was asking as it looks like Pact Dispensers are not shown as a current product, just a couple of parts.
Could this be related? Settled with a NDA?

 

[jxb]

2500 lost customers to Vista is nothing.

my comment had nothing to do with numbers of customers. The marketing folks aren't looking at that, like I said it wouldn't take much to exceed the $50k they want. Not sure where folks get 2500 from. They want $30per or a one time of $50k which at $30 per is 1667. Anyhow my point was if they want to settle the issue for $50k well that wouldn't take very many people not buying their goods. It's really easy to spend over $1k with them and $2-5k isn't a stretch so we're talking more like 50+ people is all it would take to exceed it and start making it a net loss.

 

[muleystalker]

my comment had nothing to do with numbers of customers. The marketing folks aren't looking at that, like I said it wouldn't take much to exceed the $50k they want. Not sure where folks get 2500 from. They want $30per or a one time of $50k which at $30 per is 1667. Anyhow my point was if they want to settle the issue for $50k well that wouldn't take very many people not buying their goods. It's really easy to spend over $1k with them and $2-5k isn't a stretch so we're talking more like 50+ people is all it would take to exceed it and start making it a net loss.

I think it was $50,000 + $30 on each unit sold after that but I may be wrong. The 2500 was the #of units sold to date I believe. My point being that 2500 lost customers is nothing to a company as big as VISTA and all 2500 peoplearent going to write them.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Friend of mine developed a portable shooting bench some years back. Shortly thereafter, he received a letter from a company stating his shooting table was infringing on their patent and to cease production and sales of said shooting bench.

He kindly wrote them back and asked for them to specifically state in detail the exact similarities of his design comparing to theirs showing the patent infringement.

He never heard from them again after this.

He told me that it's very common to receive similar letters from companies claiming patent infringement. It's basically their way of bluffing you into quitting.

But, he said it's their responsibility to provide you proof of the exact patent infringement in detail.

I don't know if this is all completely true, it's just what he told me he did.

 

[Dolomite]

VISTA has to prove that the part in question is in violation of patent or copy right. They normally send a threatening letter to scare the so called offender. They can’t force a small business out of business and the patent may only be enforceable in the US unless the US has a treaty with the country of origin. Since the mfg is not in the US it may not be enforceable assuming ST is mfg outside of the USA. If they have or use USA contractors or employees then they have nexus in the USA which may make the claim enforceable. Definitely consult a lawyer to get more accurate info or options available to fight the patent or copy right infringement.

 

[NiteQwill]

VISTA has to prove that the part in question is in violation of patent or copy right. They normally send a threatening letter to scare the so called offender. They can’t force a small business out of business and the patent may only be enforceable in the US unless the US has a treaty with the country of origin. Since the mfg is not in the US it may not be enforceable assuming ST is mfg outside of the USA. If they have or use USA contractors or employees then they have nexus in the USA which may make the claim enforceable. Definitely consult a lawyer to get more accurate info or options available to fight the patent or copy right infringement.

A manufacture doesn't have to be in the US to affect US customers. Simply, a product found to be in violation of a patent would simply be blocked from import into the US. Last I checked, ST said they have a service center in the US, as well.

 

[swd]

gotta love chatgpt 3.5... nothing specific but a quick ask of "list known systems that incorporate pivot drain valves, especially those used for any powder substance" produced this response followed by a list of industries to check. Unfortunately no specific items.

"Pivot drain valves are often employed in industrial and manufacturing processes where the controlled discharge of powders or bulk materials is required. These valves are designed to provide a reliable and efficient means of controlling the flow of powders. They are commonly used in industries such as pharmaceuticals, food processing, chemicals, and others."

So if it was me, I'd try to find at least one gunpowder or blackpowder manufacturer that uses pivot valves in any portion of their manufacture process where the powder comes into contact with the value.

This might be exactly what they need. Ponsness Warren used flat rotary drain valves for their shot and powder drains on the 800b loader. If the design is close enough it’s even in a reloading and powder context.

 

[Skeetman59]

If you're trickler really needs this feature, just raise the price $30. At your price point $30 more will probably have no effect on sales. Just a thought.
Paul

Totally agree.

 

[whatsupdoc]

A manufacture doesn't have to be in the US to affect US customers. Simply, a product found to be in violation of a patent would simply be blocked from import into the US. Last I checked, ST said they have a service center in the US, as well.

LOL, almost everything Amazon sells is a chicom copy of another product and yet it is still there
for you to order.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I would pay them nothing, let them sue as the burden is on them and I would just delay delay delay.