400 to 600 PD options?

[Lefty2506]

I'm getting into shooting PDs. I can't afford to go crazy at it, but I can justify putting some resources into it over time. I'd like to build a bolt action rifle shooting them out to at least 600 yds, possibly farther. The goal is to have something that bucks the wind well, is accurate while also being reasonably forgiving when it comes to load development. Some of the cartridges I'm thinking about are .243 AI, 6xc, 6cm, 6x47L, 6.5x47L, 260 AI, 6.5-06(AI), 6.5x284. I'm leaning more towards some of the smaller cartridges on the list (.243 AI, 6x47, 6.5x47, 260AI) to preserve barrel life, and I'm thinking I might be better off with a 6mm instead of a 6.5 because the high BC projectiles cost less, and its easier to push them faster than it is to push a 147gr 6.5mm projectile over 3000 fps. I'm NOT looking for something to shoot under 300 yds. I already have a couple of accurate rifles in .223 that I can push to 300 yds without a problem. I'm looking for something to use later in the season when I can't walk to within 200 yds of them.

FWIW, my plan is to use a MDT stock/chassis, a Rem 700 SA, and a Remage barrel. I'm still up in the air on the MDT because I don't yet understand the differences between all of their stocks and chassis, but I'm sure I'll be able to get something figured out.
I'd love to hear input from others on this.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Dave in WI]

@urbanrifleman

 

[Mulligan]

Why not a 6 BR, 6BRA, or 6 Dasher?
Lots of info available.
Of the cartridges you listed, the 6X47L would be my choice. Why, because I have seen it do really well at 600 yards.

CW

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would suggest a 22 XC shooting the 88 ELDM

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have everything in my store to equip you for that build.

 

[urbanrifleman]

These are my personal rifles. I'm very familiar with this setup.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Never shot PD but have shot golf balls at the distance you say, no need to go bigger brass than the Br or 47 lot of options with those and better barrel life than with some bigger. Just my 2 cents

 

[alf]

I think you're going at it bass ackwards.....

Pick a bullet(s) that fit your usage, then find the cartridge that shoots it at a velocity you're looking for at sane pressures.

Nothing wrong with a 6BR or Dasher for speed, accuracy, & barrel life.

I wouldn't be scared of a fast twist 223 or Ackley either.

Of course my choice on a .378" bolt face is the 22-204.....

 

[rayporter]

plain jane 6mm Remmington!!!!!!!
there are 3 in our group of shooters and we all like that caliber.
we also each have a 6 br.

we usually dont pull out the 6.5x284 until past 600

 

[1raggedhole]

I’ve been very happy with 6BR criterion prefits. 8 twist, shooting 87 vmax. No problem at that distance, and much more efficient than the “full size” 6mm‘s. Less powder equals less heat and longer barrel life. These are important factors on a dog town. Suggest you check out northland shooters supply for their prefit remage options.
And you can stretch it much farther…

1010 yard kill

Just returned from 4 days shooting in SD. Lowest numbers we’ve seen in this area, forced a lot of shots over 400 yds. Spent some time on a large town and killed numerous dogs over 700 yds. After many years (and rounds) of trying, I finally made the 1000 yard club with this kill at 1010 yds. Took...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[urbanrifleman]

Look at the ballistic coefficients. There is no need for a 6mm at long range for varmints.


Even a 75 ELDM smokes the heavier 6mm bullets.

 

[jghoghunter]

You never said how you plan on shooting prairie dogs. If you're walking around and shooting prone a chassis would probably be fine. If you plan on shooting from a bench that you haul out into the field give up on a chassis and use something like an MBR or one of its variants. I've watched lots of people try to use chassis at matches, the following year they got something else that works better from a bench in the bags and a rest. As for caliber I'm with Alf, great cartridge/caliber in a fast twist barrel, low powder consumption and comparatively cheap bullets. Do everything you are asking.

 

[urbanrifleman]

You never said how you plan on shooting prairie dogs. If you're walking around and shooting prone a chassis would probably be fine. If you plan on shooting from a bench that you haul out into the field give up on a chassis and use something like an MBR or one of its variants. I've watched lots of people try to use chassis at matches, the following year they got something else that works better from a bench in the bags and a rest. As for caliber I'm with Alf, great cartridge/caliber in a fast twist barrel, low powder consumption and comparatively cheap bullets. Do everything you are asking.

A chassis will do anything an MBR stock will do and then some.

I wouldn't shoot pdogs from a bench rest. I know people do, but it would seem to be very slow.

 

[1raggedhole]

Look at the ballistic coefficients. There is no need for a 6mm at long range for varmints.
View attachment 1481584

Even a 75 ELDM smokes the heavier 6mm bullets.

Shooting high bc match bullets at prairie dogs is not recommended. They ricochet terribly. You should try to balance high bc, good speed, and use quick expansion varmint bullets.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Shooting high bc match bullets at prairie dogs is not recommended. They ricochet terribly. You should try to balance high bc, good speed, and use quick expansion varmint bullets.

I have LOTS of customers that are active and prolific pdog shooters. The 75 ELDM is by far one of the most popular bullets. Especially in 22xc, 22 Creed and 22-250. You can easily shoot them at 3350 or more.

 

[Lefty2506]

I had considered a .223 AI, but basically decided I wanted something a little bigger. I've run 75gr VLDs at close to 3K from a couple of 223s, and they definitely bucked the wind better than 50gr to 60gr stuff.. Basically, I WANT something bigger than .224. No data or logic to back that up. Its just what I want.

I thought about including the 6BR in the list. I have nothing against it, but the 6x47 seems like it would have an appreciable increase in velocity (all else being equal) which would be helpful in dealing with the wind at these distances. I've also thought about the 6 Dasher, but I don't know much about it. Feel free to educate me and convince me that it's the best option.

Like many people, I've long wanted to build a 1k yd rifle, but practically speaking I'd actually USE a 600 yd PD rifle. In that train of thought, 6mm makes more sense than 6.5, so I can scratch the 260 from my list. Focusing in on 6mm, I'd be looking to shoot a bullet in the 95gr to 105gr range. Without having any experience in developing accurate reloads for those bullets and shooting them in the wind at 600 yds, I can't really narrow it down any farther.

It sounds like my best options (excluding the .224 stuff, which I admittedly may regret excluding) are the 6x47 and a 6BR or one of its variants.

As far as how I normally shoot them, it varies. I use an AR for shooting them out to 300 yds, and that is done off of a tripod with a simple yolk on top. At the end of this year's trip, I added a Trigger stick Bipod under the rear which drastically increased my stability. Unfortunately, on the last day we were shooting from a lane way which had ruts 6" deep and grass that was over 8" tall so adjusting the bipod was a serious PITA. Most of the other shooting I've done has been in very short grass (often none) which would have made things easier. I'm not convinced that this setup would get me out to 600 yds, but it would probably get me to 400 yds. Realistically, I'd likely end up shooting prone from an attached bipod, or from a plastic table with a front rest and a rear bag. I agree that an F class style stock would likely work better from a rear bag, but I believe MDT has such a stock. Most chassis have a pic rail on the bottom of the buttstock, so I think any issues with a rear bag could be addressed. Still working through the stock/chassis options in my head.

 

[jghoghunter]

A chassis will do anything an MBR stock will do and then some.

I wouldn't shoot pdogs from a bench rest. I know people do, but it would seem to be very slow.

From 1996-2014 I shot pd from a bench every year. This was my vacation. My shooting partner and I have more kills out 1 mile plus than you can shake a stick at. We shot at pd out to 2 miles. Never killed at that distance but have kills out to 2300 yards. I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.
A chassis will not work as good as a MBR in a bag and a rest and a MBR will not work as good as a chassis laying on the ground shooting prone. That's why I asked the question of what way are you shooting bench or prone.
Just because you wouldn't shoot from a bench lots of people do. It's not slow. It's not easy to move around. We hardly ever moved once set up. Plus we had done it enough, we had a good program and it worked well for us.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I had considered a .223 AI, but basically decided I wanted something a little bigger. I've run 75gr VLDs at close to 3K from a couple of 223s, and they definitely bucked the wind better than 50gr to 60gr stuff.. Basically, I WANT something bigger than .224. No data or logic to back that up. Its just what I want.

I thought about including the 6BR in the list. I have nothing against it, but the 6x47 seems like it would have an appreciable increase in velocity (all else being equal) which would be helpful in dealing with the wind at these distances. I've also thought about the 6 Dasher, but I don't know much about it. Feel free to educate me and convince me that it's the best option.

Like many people, I've long wanted to build a 1k yd rifle, but practically speaking I'd actually USE a 600 yd PD rifle. In that train of thought, 6mm makes more sense than 6.5, so I can scratch the 260 from my list. Focusing in on 6mm, I'd be looking to shoot a bullet in the 95gr to 105gr range. Without having any experience in developing accurate reloads for those bullets and shooting them in the wind at 600 yds, I can't really narrow it down any farther.

It sounds like my best options (excluding the .224 stuff, which I admittedly may regret excluding) are the 6x47 and a 6BR or one of its variants.

As far as how I normally shoot them, it varies. I use an AR for shooting them out to 300 yds, and that is done off of a tripod with a simple yolk on top. At the end of this year's trip, I added a Trigger stick Bipod under the rear which drastically increased my stability. Unfortunately, on the last day we were shooting from a lane way which had ruts 6" deep and grass that was over 8" tall so adjusting the bipod was a serious PITA. Most of the other shooting I've done has been in very short grass (often none) which would have made things easier. I'm not convinced that this setup would get me out to 600 yds, but it would probably get me to 400 yds. Realistically, I'd likely end up shooting prone from an attached bipod, or from a plastic table with a front rest and a rear bag. I agree that an F class style stock would likely work better from a rear bag, but I believe MDT has such a stock. Most chassis have a pic rail on the bottom of the buttstock, so I think any issues with a rear bag could be addressed. Still working through the stock/chassis options in my head.

6x47 brass is basically unobtanium. Go 6xc. Tubb always has brass.

 

[urbanrifleman]

From 1996-2014 I shot pd from a bench every year. This was my vacation. My shooting partner and I have more kills out 1 mile plus than you can shake a stick at. We shot at pd out to 2 miles. Never killed at that distance but have kills out to 2300 yards. I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.
A chassis will not work as good as a MBR in a bag and a rest and a MBR will not work as good as a chassis laying on the ground shooting prone. That's why I asked the question of what way are you shooting bench or prone.
Just because you wouldn't shoot from a bench lots of people do. It's not slow. It's not easy to move around. We hardly ever moved once set up. Plus we had done it enough, we had a good program and it worked well for us.

A mile... on a pdog....

Okie dokie.

 

[Lefty2506]

I have LOTS of customers that are active and prolific pdog shooters. The 75 ELDM is by far one of the most popular bullets. Especially in 22xc, 22 Creed and 22-250. You can easily shoot them at 3350 or more.

Honestly, I had fantastic results from the older 75gr Amax in .223 Wylde chamber in muy service rifle when I shot high power. I was able to reach almost 3,000 fps accurately with a max charge of N540. Coming off of 600 at Camp Perry, my windage was as much as 30% less than the folks shooting 69gr pills. I never tried anything heavier because the velocity from a 223/5.56 drops FAST after 75gr, so the heavier stuff ended up spending a lot more time in the air and getting pushed farther than the 75s.

My bigger concern with the 224 stuff is barrel life. The big .224 stuff seem to be a lot more overbore than the 6mm. Even though they may not be pushing as much powder, I would think the barrel would get hot faster, and the barrel life would be limited. I can see myself putting 300 rounds through this rifle on a 3 day trip, or maybe 500 rounds in a year. It would be nice to get more than 2 or 3 years from it. Then again, barrels are supposed to be consumable right?