How quickly do bullets "weld" to the neck?

[762willdo]

The obvious answer to all this is…….use nickel plated cases.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I agree with the "lube" stopping - if not minimizing the cold weld. I moly my ammo intended for long term storage or when pre-loading for accuracy work. If they are bare, I lightly vacuum bag them.

A Little Carbon left in case neck and a Little Hornady Lube,.. goes, a LONG Ways to AVOIDING,.. Bullet "Weld" !
But WTF do I know,.. I've only been Reloading since, the mid 1950's

 

[littlebuddybr]

Coincidentally, i was shooting 600yds last week. I shot all my freshly loaded ammo loaded maybe a month ago.
I had a few rounds loaded in the box since 2019. Out of pure curiosity, I shot the old loads at the group I shot with the fresh loads. The old loads went right in the center of the group.
If there was any weld, it didn’t matter.

 

[searcher]

I have head of this issue before just never thought about bulk loads i have sitting around. Better go to the range and use it then... i pretty much quit loading rounds unless i know ill be using it soon. About a month ago i loaded some rounds for my winter predator hunting. Got to try them out 2 weeks ago and hope to tey out more this coming up sunday.

Yeah - after seeing what happened to some of my real old ammo (that I loaded), I now put them in an ammo can with the silica packs or put them in a container and vacuum bag the whole thing. Should slow it down a lot. Fingers crossed, anyway.

 

[searcher]

A Little Carbon left in case neck and a Little Hornady Lube,.. goes, a LONG Ways to AVOIDING,.. Bullet "Weld" !
But WTF do I know,.. I've only been Reloading since, the mid 1950's

Glad that carbon in the neck works for you. Hasn't for me in 50+ years. The cases I had the big problems with had the cases loaded between 5 and 7 times. I do a light tumble to knock the soot off them for the dies - but that residual left in the neck wasn't enough. I also use the neck powder - and that doesn't help too much long term either. I do swear by moly for many years now for that purpose. Just too bad I don't like to moly all by ammo (like lead-free - which tends to shoot crappy with it)

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Searcher,. I was kinda,.. Joking,.. I Brush the Carbon, mostly out of neck area with, Tight fitting, Nylon Brushes
( several strokes,.. 4 to 6 ) then use, a tad of old Hornady ( Pacific ) Unique Lube, on another tight fitting, Nylon Brush ( again several strokes ). My can of Hornady-Pacific Lube, is very Old ( from 1975- 1980 ish ).
Surprisingly, this has, worked WELL for Me,.. for Decades.
When My ammo gets to be, 15-20 years old, I shoot it up for Practice and, Reload,.. FRESH stuff.
I have NEVER had, "Welded up," Bullets or, POI "Shift" from, the Older ammo done, THIS way.

 

[jimmymac]

Here in lies an additional layer of complexity as some believe this could lead to variation in bullet hold and as we know bullet hold is a fairly large contributor to accuracy.

Not in my world. Whenever I’m doing seating depth testing, I’ll frequently pre-load a day to a couple weeks in advance with my bullets seated long so I can adjust CBTO on the fly at the range. I’ve had zero issues and once seating depth is established I can get repeat results reloading on the spot. We as a group tend to overthink this stuff. It’s not rocket surgery.

 

[big5ifty]

Just like the title asks, in your opinion how soon do bullets weld to necks?

I expect that if the inside of the neck is down to bare shiny brass and the bullet is uncoated, that there may be a tendency to cold-weld in a short time.

I've seen some Youtubers advocate seating bullets a touch long, then on the day of the match seat the final bit to break that cold weld, and they don't load months in advance.

I've never encountered this with my reloads, but that may be a side-effect of what I don't do.

I don't use stainless pins to clean the brass, I use walnut media, so the inside of the neck is not squeaky clean.

I don't use uncoated bullets, everything is moly coated.

I have encountered cold-weld on factory 30-06 ammo that was of unknown age. A friend gave me a few boxes of old ammo which I pulled to re-use the brass, and some of the bullets needed a lot of muscle to pull - using a collet puller on a single stage Classic Cast press.

I still have a few moly coated .416 rounds loaded close to a decade ago. No cold weld.

 

[jimmymac]

I’m my mind, once a preferred neck tension is set it’s set regardless of the method that was used. Seating a bullet deeper in the case a day or a week after shouldn’t change anything other than CBTO. Mechanically I don’t see how it’s possible.

 

[Charlie-NY]

At the gun shows there are always a few tables with hundreds and hundreds of boxes with old factory ammo. Presumably, all of the brass and bullets were bare before assembly. Can we assume that they are all welded?

What about relatively new ammo that sits in warehouses, then at jobber, and then on your retailer's shelf for awhile? All welded?

I don't have a clue, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

[hpasquet]

It is like glue setting up. Graphite separating the metals prevents welding. Minimal seating pressure also helps. I use 15-20 pounds on 6MM.

 

[big5ifty]

At the gun shows there are always a few tables with hundreds and hundreds of boxes with old factory ammo. Presumably, all of the brass and bullets were bare before assembly. Can we assume that they are all welded?

No. Not every old round is like that.

I once had a handful of .303 British rounds, and I shot them, keeping one to pull. It was loaded with strings, cordite I think it's called.

That was pre-war old. Bullet pulled without difficulty. No cold weld.

 

[jimmymac]

That’s

Im not sure how to test it, like I said originally “some believe “

That’s why I don’t try to overthink it. Before this conversation it never entered my mind. I’ve seated long many times and adjusted on the fly followed up by reloading on the spot and achieving repeat results at both 100 and 200 yards. If something was amiss, it would show up on target. Hasn’t happened yet.

 

[jimmymac]

OMG’ I almost spilled my coffee laughing. we’re going deep into the weeds now, too funny.

Huh? You are the guy who theorized that seating long and adjusting on the fly at the range added a layer of complexity. I’m saying you are all wet. Test for yourself at the games you play. I’ve done it on my end and I’m satisfied that what you alluded to as adding complexity is white noise.

 

[K22]

Huh? You are the guy who theorized that seating long and adjusting on the fly at the range added a layer of complexity. I’m saying your all wet. Test for yourself at the games you play. I’ve done it on my end and I’m satisfied that what you alluded to as adding complexity is white noise.

The internet has created all kinds of mystical phenomena in the shooting sports and has turned something that is relatively simple into something complex with dire consequences if you do not adhere to some prescribed theory. The two "biggies" are cleaning and barrel break in. Now enter a new one, "bullet weld".

In my early days it was "neck sizing". The claim was longer case life and better accuracy. This at least had some slight basis in true because we all were FL sizing cases incorrectly, blindly turning the FL die down per mfg.'s instructions, oversizing case. Once we learned how to properly FL cases, meaning adjusting the FL die to give optimum sizing by using either the rifle chamber or later bump cases to adjust the FL die, the myth was dispelled plus properly FL sized cases provide enhanced functionality.

I feel bad for new shooters entering the sport, it has to be so frustrating and confusing. I really believe all this BS is sucking the joy out of the sport creating neurotic shooters.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

This is not really a discussion, it is believed by some and ignored by others. Nobody is changing the way others think as they are all stuck in their ways. One more time, I shot hand loaded ammo that sat for over a year went over the Rocky Mountains and then shot 200/198/200 the two dropped shots were not from bullet weld but rather a couple of bad wind calls. If that is not enough proof....I give up!

 

[BoydAllen]

The internet has created all kinds of mystical phenomena in the shooting sports and has turned something that is relatively simple into something complex with dire consequences if you do not adhere to some prescribed theory. The two "biggies" are cleaning and barrel break in. Now enter a new one, "bullet weld".

In my early days it was "neck sizing". The claim was longer case life and better accuracy. This at least had some slight basis in true because we all were FL sizing cases incorrectly, blindly turning the FL die down per mfg.'s instructions, oversizing case. Once we learned how to properly FL cases, meaning adjusting the FL die to give optimum sizing by using either the rifle chamber or later bump cases to adjust the FL die, the myth was dispelled plus properly FL sized cases provide enhanced functionality.

I feel bad for new shooters entering the sport, it has to be so frustrating and confusing. I really believe all this BS is sucking the joy out of the sport creating neurotic shooters.

To be clear, in the past I have attempted to disassemble ammo by using a inertial bullet puller, after which I decided to seat the bullets deeper. When I did that it took a LOT of effort on the press handle and when the bullets moved there was a loud POP, much louder than you heard in Cortina's video, earlier in this thread. After the bullets were reseated, I was able to remove them using my inertial puller. This is not conjecture or speculation, it is actual experience. Just because you have not experienced something does not mean that it is not happening.

 

[762willdo]

If you take your new bullets out of the original packaging and leave them exposed in say a bowl for a few weeks they develop a “patina” I wonder if that would help with the welding…..

 

[AlNyhus]

In my 30BR, the normal load ends up with a fair amount of powder in the case. Even with a bushing .004 under the loaded neck diameter, seating the bullets and then rechecking the B-O length the next day...the bullets have moved forward by from .004-.006 due to powder compaction (not compression...that's different).

When I preload for a tournament, I seat the bullets about .020 longer via a shim under the seating stem. Then at the event, I pull the .020 shim out and seat them the rest of the way. No problems ever.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

 

[Ned Ludd]

In my 30BR, the normal load ends up with a fair amount of powder in the case. Even with a bushing .004 under the loaded neck diameter, seating the bullets and then rechecking the B-O length the next day...the bullets have moved forward by from .004-.006 due to powder compaction (not compression...that's different).

When I preload for a tournament, I seat the bullets about .020 longer via a shim under the seating stem. Then at the event, I pull the .020 shim out and seat them the rest of the way. No problems ever.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

The good news is that if the bullets are moving, at least you know they haven't "welded" to the necks yet.